"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." (Proverbs 27:17)
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Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 517
Location: ether
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 Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:21 pm Post subject: God should be self-centered, because we are to center on Him |
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I read your article about why I am not a Calvinist with interest. I had trouble with the reason for rejecting calvinism. You said:
| ISOT site wrote: | | "These beliefs and their derivatives are impossible for me to accept. Why? Not because I personally find them offensive or distasteful, but because God condemns such behavior from his creation." |
Well, does God condemn self-seeking, self-praise, self-centeredness? Yet he demands these things for Himself doesn't He? He commands us to praise Him, to center our lives around Him and to seek Him. By your logic, if it's wrong for us to to, it must be wrong for God to do... If that's not true, then it's not a valid objection for Calvinism.
How do you deal with this objection?
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m273p15c
Joined: 28 Sep 1999
Posts: 496
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for your kind inquiry. Just for reference, I've included just a little more from the article:
| ISOT site wrote: | "Two central problems exist with the doctrines of Calvinism. They indite God's character by accusing Him of mass injustice and selfish egotism. These implications are unavoidable and necessarily implied by the beliefs that God arbitrarily judges mankind based on God's predestination and for His own glory."
"These beliefs and their derivatives are impossible for me to accept. Why? Not because I personally find them offensive or distasteful, but because God condemns such behavior from his creation. Would Calvinism teach that the creation is more responsible and capable than its Creator? Not without contradicting its fundamental premise of God's absolute sovereignty." |
God does condemn self-seeking, self-praise, and self-centeredness, almost exclusively. He does instruct us to seek the benefit of our soul above all else. Our relationship with him is the most sacred (Luke 14:26; Matthew 10:28-38). We are to seek the honor, glory, and praise that He will give based on our response to His invitation (Romans 2:1-11). Praise is not bad, if it is true. With men, such praise is empty and misguided, often separating us from God (John 12:37-43). The praise that God offers cannot be separated from the good that led to it (Matthew 25:14-46). God cannot be fooled (Psalm 94). He cannot be wrong (James 1:13-17; 1 John 1:5). Therefore, to seek praise from God is to seek the ultimate good, and vice versa.
However, in seeking this praise, we must learn to love and sacrifice ourselves, even as He did for us (Romans 5:6-8; I John 3:16; 4:7-12). Therefore, God is neither "self-seeking", "self-praise", or "self-centered" as was described. God has exemplified sacrifice (John 3:16) and ultimate patience with those who rebel (II Peter 3:7-9). His actions toward us indicate that He is the very opposite of self-seeking, self-praise, and self-centeredness. He is love (I John 4:8, 16). Although He is jealous for us (Exodus 34:14), He is jealous for our good (Revelation 21:1-22:21).
Moreover, when He "commands us to praise Him, to center our lives around Him and to seek Him", He is in actuality seeking our good (Deuteronomy 6:24; I John 5:3). Again, this is exemplified in His sacrifice, mercy, and patience. But, He does not seek His own glory because He's an ego-maniac. That is in actuality my argument against Calvinism. Calvin's god does not seek the benefit of His creation. He arbitrarily exalts and destroys. Neither fate has relation to the wants, needs, desires, or actions of the creatures. This god is truly self-seeking, because He only seeks His praise. He cares nothing for his creation.
The true God does not seek praise, because He likes to hear His name. The true God does not need man (Psalm 50:7-15). In actuality, He does not even really care for the praise, in and of itself. He is seeking our hearts, a closer relationship with us (Micah 6:6-8; Psalm 51:16-17; Amos 5:21-27). Therefore, He is not truly seeking is own praise, except in so doing, He seeks our benefit. To ignore our Creator and Source is not good for us. If we are not like God, who will we be like? Do you think the Devil is happy? Not to mention the pain and suffering he inflicts upon others...
In short, to accuse God's actions of "self-seeking, self-praise, and self-centeredness" is to misinterpret His love toward us. All that He does His for our benefit, not His. He is truly greater than His creation, exemplifying a standard to which we are called (Matthew 5:48). That being true, where would Calvin's god stand? Could the same be said of Calvin's god? Does he do all things for the benefit of his creation? Does he live up to the standard by which he condemns his creation? This is my argument and answer.
I hope this helps in your study. Please respond if you have any follow-up thoughts or questions.
May God bless us both as we seek His truth above all else. |
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