[William]

** Split from this thread: http://forums.insearchoftruth.org/viewtopic.php?p=2354#2354 **
The Moderator - 9/1/2008

Hey, fella’s

This is my first post in this forum. ... “What is the meaning of Life”. What is truth? Who are we? How did we get here”. Considering the universe is arguably what, 14 billion years old and we have been here as best we can recall 5 thousand years. Can that even be measured in the broad scope of it all. I ask you why do we try? It is in the answer to that question we will find the truth.

I have just spent the past five and one half months visiting another forum that primarily consisted of agnostic’s and atheist’s that represent the philosophical and scientific mind. Now I profess I am to ignorant to know all that is God, and I am not smart enough to be an atheist though I have IMHO, have been blessed with a little wisdom in my humble life. There is a truth but you really have got to seek it to find it. It is my sincerest hope I will be able to reach those intrenched beliefs and shed a little light on the subject.

Why do we effort so to figure it all out? Simple, because we have the ability to. That’s why. Why would we want to? Well Shakespeare answered that question: “To be or not to be, that is the question”. Oh, he was so right. We have grown fond of this thing “to be”. We really like that. No matter what our lot in life, and we are not capable of knowing of any alternative that we can compare it to. Well, maybe heaven but we have no clue of what that is either, do we? Ah, but for our imaginations, can we dream or can’t we. Wow!

This “not to be” thing has us stumped. In our mind death is hard to equate in the overall scheme of things. Yet we have determined nothing ever really “goes away”. What is, was and always will be. We have figured that out. But where do we fit in all that? We effort to figure that out simply because we don’t like not knowing. If we could just figure out our beginning we could, through cause and effect find out those answers. The Earth has a way of hiding what we don’t need to know and all we can do is at best speculate. You see discovery is a wonderful thing if it has the best motives in mind, and what better motive is there to insure tomorrow is better than today. But our tomorrow’s are limited, aren’t they? Or so we think, anyway. Here is the key to all our problems: It is not that we should prove we are eternal, but it absolutely necessary to believe that we are.

Here is our biggest stumbling block and of course it is drawn on that conclusion each of you have made of which we do not have a clue: God created the Heavens and the Earth. Now there is absolutely no way we can empirically prove that statement. None. Now we create things, sure enough so it is reasonable to assume we were created too, right? Of course it is. Since we cannot prove that statement, perhaps it is wise we do not delve into it and just leave.....it.....alone. Let’s just concentrate on what we do know and if we can do that we become wise and that will lead us to the truth and then and only then will be begin to know what life is all about. Right now we are still surviving, we haven’t begun to live yet. Unless you can call waste, greed, disease, poverty, envy, hate, abortions, latch key children, divorce, murder, war, discrimination, racism, slavery, corruption, a trillion dollar drug industry, pornography, suicide, condescension and on an on and on. If this is life.................nah, I am not even going to go there. This is more of a hell than it is life. Now let’s talk about that a second, ok.

If there was a book of rules when man first made a foot print here it would be different. This is not saying much of what is written is not inspired, but let’s face it is not easy defining what we know based as it relates to the “big picture” as all our thoughts are more concentrated on surviving than living. Now I know it will take you a little while to fully understand the meaning of that statement, but is crucial that you do. It is so very important. Once you really grasp it your thinking will begin to become “divine”. Then we will begin to realize what heaven or life is all about. Let me explain. Are you with me so far?

William
_________________
I am 60 years old and have been searching for truth my entire life. I have an enormous faith in God, yet I do not hold dear any tenet. I would like to share what I have learned.
William

[William]

For us to truly live please hear these words: To appreciate the warmth of the sun, we must learn from the lessons the storms teach us. In our great desire to survive, it is in those measures that causes our blindness to the joy of the life we were meant to live. How very difficult that is when assumed this Earth is for sale, in that there are costs imposed on those who live here. What human made such a claim? Perhaps this is the cloud that keeps us in the dark as we stumble efforting to find enlightenment as we tend to ignore what that assumed price has wrought. Life is an entitlement for all who call this Earth home. Who is anyone to judge who does not belong as we too readily cast a disparaging eye on those who cannot pay the price. We gloat in the gold we carry as we view it a reward as to our goodness, or our manipulation, or our wit, or our guile, or our intelligence. In that all the storms we have endured we remain as the funnel of inequity spirals us even deeper into despair, it can only be reasoned we have been going through an orientation or indocrination to help us determine what is good and what is evil. It is that wisdom we gather from our experiences as we err that will identify our true path that is our life that is eternal".

William
_________________
I am 60 years old and have been searching for truth my entire life. I have an enormous faith in God, yet I do not hold dear any tenet. I would like to share what I have learned.
William

[William]

Peace of mind is that divinity connection that will link us up to that core that is who we are. We are one with it and it is fear that keeps us from that vital and eternal link. The connection is the rapture. Peace of mind is the gateway. In the reality we, man, has created thrives on fear for we deem our existence to be terminal. It is not known to any what happens upon our death, but it must be assumed it is a part of life. In that paradigm we have created we think wrongly as we aspire to obtain all that life has to offer for it will come to an end one day. Not good. It is the root of all our iniquity. Life is in the moment and that is all it is and life must be lived in that moment letting neither the past or visions of the future interfere with it. Unfortunately what takes that joy of life away is the guilt of the past and worry of tomorrow that bings that life to an end forcing us to "survive" and not "live". We covet life so and it is in that grasp we choke it to death. This Earth is not for sale. There is no value other than human value and what that mind has to offer undisturbed by another. You have created a world in which that measure of life is determined by what you have other than who you are and what you have to offer to your fellow man, for he is a part of you. We are the physical manifestation of God. We are He. We give human life to God. It is through us He lives. We must understand this small phrase for it will define our growth and future: God is me, I am not He. Once you realize this very simplicity will you begin to understand who you really are. Contrary to instilled believe, it is not God who demands our worship, it is he who wishes to help us. All we need is to clear our heads a little. He will automatically be there. May God be with you is not a prayer, it is the way things were meant to be. We are divine, we are just very young.

William
_________________
I am 60 years old and have been searching for truth my entire life. I have an enormous faith in God, yet I do not hold dear any tenet. I would like to share what I have learned.
William

[m273p15c]

Hi William,

That's an interesting story. What proof or evidence do you offer to justify your claims?

Thanks!
_________________
May God help us to love truth sincerely and supremely (II Thessalonians 2:11-12)

[William]

[m273p15c]

I'm sorry, but I believe we are supposed to defend truth, even vigorously:

[William]

[William]

I woefully regret the way Christian’s absolutely shut down when anyone offers to bring a clearer understanding of the Bible and Christianity in general. Just in my lifetime the Bible has been changed, edited and interpreted 74 times. In this century over a 100 times. Yet when having a clear cut discussion on the authenticity of the Bible, they always just shut down. If this forum is to live up to it’s name “In Search For Truth” then it must do that. If it has already found it’s truth then the forum should change it’s name to “The Bible is Truth”. Now for that to be indeed a truth, then there would be no need to touch it’s words in any way whatsoever. It would be a sacrilege to do so. Right? So all I am saying there is indeed a lot of room in those so very many interpretations of the Bible for continued discussion. Again if anyone finds in the words I write any maliciousness, please by all means bring that to my attention and let’s discuss it. If you are not able to do that, Jesus could come knocking at your door offering a continuation to his purpose and you would slam the door in his face for it is indeed not in the Bible.
Just a thought. Consider it.

William
_________________
I am 60 years old and have been searching for truth my entire life. I have an enormous faith in God, yet I do not hold dear any tenet. I would like to share what I have learned.
William

[truth]

you say your looking for truth ,how would you know it if you found it ?

[William]

[truth]

william you speak of the soul as if ha a life of its own how ever Eze 18 : 4 Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.
Eze 18 : 20 The soul that is sinning—it itself will die
a dead soul is just that ...........dead . i hope i dont have to explain dead.


and the earth is my home and i like it here . Matthew, 5:5  “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.
you see william there things about gods kingdom that you dont yet under stand ,Jesus prayed at matthew 6:10 Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth. it will be an earth were no one will ever die ,will ever get sick and war will be no more.
is going to be a wonderful place .

[William]

[truth]

to your ""The soul as if it had a life of it's own".

The Soul According to the Bible

“The man came to be a living soul.”—GENESIS 2:7.

AS WE have seen, beliefs about the soul are many and varied. Even among those who claim to base their beliefs on the Bible, there are differing ideas about what the soul is and what happens to it when we die. But what does the Bible really teach about the soul? To find out, we need to examine the meanings of the Hebrew and Greek words that are translated “soul” in the Bible.

“Soul” as a Living Creature

2 The Hebrew word translated “soul” is ne′phesh, and it occurs 754 times in the Hebrew Scriptures (commonly called the Old Testament). What does ne′phesh mean? According to The Dictionary of Bible and Religion, it “usually refers to the entire living being, to the whole individual.”

3 For example, Genesis 2:7 states: “ God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.” Note that Adam did not have a soul; he was a soul—just as someone who becomes a doctor is a doctor. The word “soul,” then, can describe a whole person.

4 This understanding is supported throughout the Hebrew Scriptures, where we find such phrases as “in case a soul sins” (Leviticus 5:1), “any soul that will do any sort of work” (Leviticus 23:30), “in case a man is found kidnapping a soul” (Deuteronomy 24:7), “his soul got to be impatient” (Judges 16:16), “how long will you men keep irritating my soul?” (Job 19:2), and “my soul has been sleepless from grief.”—Psalm 119:28.

5 There is no indication in these passages that the soul is some shadowy entity that lives on after death. “To say in our terms that the ‘soul’ of the loved one has departed to be with the Lord or to speak of the ‘immortal soul’ would simply not be understandable in the culture of the OT [Old Testament],” says The Dictionary of Bible and Religion.

6 The word translated “soul” more than a hundred times in the Christian Greek Scriptures (commonly called the New Testament) is psy·khe′. Like ne′phesh, this word often refers to a whole person. For example, consider the following statements: “My soul is troubled.” (John 12:27) “Fear began to fall upon every soul.” (Acts 2:43) “Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities.” (Romans 13:1) “Speak consolingly to the depressed souls.” (1 Thessalonians 5:14) “A few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.”—1 Peter 3:20.

7 Psy·khe′, like ne′phesh, clearly refers to the whole person. According to scholar Nigel Turner, this word “signifies what is characteristically human, the self, the material body having God’s rûaḥ [spirit] breathed into it. . . . The emphasis is on the whole self.”

8 In the Bible the word “soul” applies not only to humans but also to animals. For example, in describing the creation of sea creatures, Genesis 1:20 says that God commanded: “Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls.” And on the next creative day, God said: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” (Genesis 1:24; compare Numbers 31:28.) Hence, “soul” can refer to a living creature, whether human or animal.

then you said "It is not God's desire for us to "worship" him; it is his desire to help us. "
there is one thing that god is not and that is a servent nor is he submissive tho i do have to ask if your refering to jesus as god or are you refering to the father as god ?

[William]

Truth quoted:


“The man came to be a living soul.”—GENESIS 2:7".

Let's look at this for a moment. Please understand the Bible has been changed, reinterpretated and modified over 60 times in my life time. The above statement can be interpreted in any number of ways. Let me give you mine. The word "man" to me means the sentient, living, physical being. It is the soul of man taking "form". The "soul" now was sensate and was "new" to this new existence. Any imagination as to what the "entirity" of God is to that of man cannot be known. Impossible. Man was created for a reason and is a part of that "God" from which he was created from. That's "ALL" we know for sure. The universe is and we are a part of that, whatever it is. God is that core the drives the universe and us. We are all "one". Man is just the "new" creation. A very small, young, hubris, autonomous, perfect creation of an ongoing, developing, unfolding inexplicable macrocosm that is God and the Universe. We have determined "nothing" ever "ceases" to exist in the universe. What is, was and will always be. Even us. Our past is not known to us for good reason. It does not contribute to "forward momentum". What ever the "soul" was before it was endowed with it's "sensate body" is not our concern.

Now when this was written we did not have the knowledge we have now. It is understandable for man to assume he was the "image" of God. Now to some degree that is a correct statement. We are a creation of God and we are indeed divine, but we didn't know that. We could only assume an entity like us created us. That is very understandable and why we associated our desires to that of a much more powerful God. When in fact we are just a "new development" of that God. We are not "apart from that God", we are "a part of that God". The fact that we consider our selve's independent of that God is where we would inevitably get into trouble. But it had to be that way simply because we are "perfect creations". God could not create an "imperfect anything". That's why we were "warned" of the "tree of knowledge (good and evil)" because it was not known how the "soul" would react to the overwhelming new sensations of the body experience. God is not of "body" and God would learn, "through us" what "being human" was all about. We are His physical being. The overwhelming sensation of physical being is what caused our separation from that God. Actually, we were never separated, we just lost communication. That's all. It was necessary for us to experience life and determine what was "good" for us and what was "bad" for us. It had to be that away. Now it is time to link back up and that is what the rapture is all about as we recogize our oneness and begin to "divinely communicate" with each other. It is time we plugged back in to that power source that will guide our path for we cannot exist with out it. FACT.

Oh, we can, but that is what "hell' is all about. We have a choice continue on as we are and build a hell, or allow that "missing link" to join the party and build that heaven we were created for. Actually heaven is not a place, it is a journey. A journey into forever as we whistle all the way. Ha.

Now if what I have said truly "offends" you, you must examine what it is about your beliefs that could cause such distress in lieu of what I have just said. Is it your fear for your soul if you think differently as you think you are "disobeying" a vengeful, wrathful, jealous God? Please, think about that for a moment. How could a "loving, all knowing God" have such traits? All of the "evil" in the world is a result of man's abuse toward his fellow man as he desires to "rule, command and control" his fellow man, so he designed a God that does the same thing.

All I am asking you to think outside of the box. I am not here to debate with you, just to instill a little of the wisdom I have gathered as a result of God guiding my life so I could bring the truth to you. I promise you, once you know God like I know God, it will blow you away and buckle your knees. Fear is the obstacle the keeps "His signal" out. Just always remember your are divine in that "God is you, but you are not God'.

As far as God being a servant, I never said that. You did. That was "your" interpretation of what I said. That is what you wanted to hear. I said "help" us. There is a big difference. It you do not assist others for fear of being called a "servant" then you think wrong my friend. We all can use a little help and God helps me big time. He's my best friend.

William
_________________
I am 60 years old and have been searching for truth my entire life. I have an enormous faith in God, yet I do not hold dear any tenet. I would like to share what I have learned.
William

[truth]

William
what god do you claim to honer ? who is your god ?

[William]

[truth]

WOW!! '' who is you god '' is a tougher question than i thought it was , do you want to try again ? all I'm looking for is a name.

[William]

[truth]

well now this is all very interesting you come on here preaching about god and you
dont even know which god your promoting ? yeah you say the god of the bible yet there are many gods spoken of
in the bible .
have you read the bible ? it would seam you think its not very important.
you say to think out side of the box, do you know whats inside of the box ? god does have a plan ,just because its hidden form you is no reason to make up your own.

[William]

Actually, I didn't make it up on my own. I had a lot of help. As I said, reaching through is not easy. Thanks for avoiding all of my rather simple questions. It seems some Christians do that quite often. I am glad you have found your truth. It looks as though you have adopted it as your own. I wish you well.

William
_________________
I am 60 years old and have been searching for truth my entire life. I have an enormous faith in God, yet I do not hold dear any tenet. I would like to share what I have learned.
William

[William]

I would like to apologize to those if I in any way "disturbed" your faith. I surely was not my intent. I found this site by actually typing "Searching For Truth" in my browser. I was hoping it was as it's name implied. That is not what it is. I am not one who believes a book that has been changed as many times as the Bible has, as the know all end all "word of God". It's fine if you do. For a "good man" to look down on another "good man" simply because he does not believe as you, really needs to re-evaluate what is "good" about that. To "elevate one's self above another in such a way that lead's to condescension is closer to "evil" than it is good. Please consider renaming this site. It does not live up to it's name in my opinion. It is indeed misleading if it truly thinks it is searching for truth. It has found it's truth and is not searching for anything. Again, sorry if I "rocked your boat" a little.

May God be with you. That is not a prayer, it is the way life was meant to be.
William
_________________
I am 60 years old and have been searching for truth my entire life. I have an enormous faith in God, yet I do not hold dear any tenet. I would like to share what I have learned.
William

[truth]

i suspect your problem does not come from the idea of there being different bibles but from the fact there are so many different so called '' Christian religions ''

even as there is in fact one true god there is logically only one true religion .
the problem is you have yet to find it or should i say recognize it .

[William]

[truth]

[William]

[truth]

[quote="William"]

[truth]

William do you have any ideas that are bible based ? so far it looks as though your making it up as you go .

[William]

[William]

[quote="truth"]

[truth]

you used the words "eternal hell" and ''rapture'', are these some things that you think i believe in?