Search found 62 matches

by Hugh McBryde
Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:45 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Polygyny: Can a man Scripturally have multiple wives?
Replies: 52
Views: 90548

I do claim to be a "Modern Pharisee"

"Hugh, your problem is you're just like every other legalist I've ever met." I don't think "legalism" amounts to a contradiction of God's will foc, I think legalism is an incomplete expression of God's will, namely a skeleton as opposed to a living breathing creature, or an outline, as opposed to t...
by Hugh McBryde
Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:59 am
Forum: Morality
Topic: Polygyny: Can a man Scripturally have multiple wives?
Replies: 52
Views: 90548

Break out them Bibles

Of course, foc, I would like to see your scripture reference for God "tolerating" something he also on occasion compelled. The notion that Polygyny was not established from the beginning is also not documented. If you say that the establishment of "monogamy only" is from the beginning, you also say ...
by Hugh McBryde
Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:34 am
Forum: Morality
Topic: Polygyny: Can a man Scripturally have multiple wives?
Replies: 52
Views: 90548

I will address only the points that touch on the debate.

"He asserts that Gods will for marriage is polygamy, shows a few cases where it happened, assumes that means it is Gods WILL for marriage." False. A common debate tactic is the "strawman". That is the characterization of your opponents argument in a way that resembles their argument, but is in fact...
by Hugh McBryde
Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:08 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Polygyny: Can a man Scripturally have multiple wives?
Replies: 52
Views: 90548

Our story so far.

foc quite naturally believes he has defeated the argument I presented before. This means he has at least one powerful argument that conclusively proves his point, at least he thinks he does. I suggest that foc present that argument again. One argument. We will debate it to the conclusion. For exampl...
by Hugh McBryde
Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:33 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Polygyny: Can a man Scripturally have multiple wives?
Replies: 52
Views: 90548

No MAN is commanded to marry, outside Levirate Law.

"There is no command to marry AT ALL, unless of course you look at the Levirate Law command, the command in which a brother is compelled to take his brother's wife." "And?" Well, you did say this earlier: "can you show me the scripture that says 'thou shalt mulitply wives unto thyself'....or someth...
by Hugh McBryde
Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:18 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Polygyny: Can a man Scripturally have multiple wives?
Replies: 52
Views: 90548

There is no command to take just ONE wife either.

There is no command to marry AT ALL, unless of course you look at the Levirate Law command, the command in which a brother is compelled to take his brother's wife. That command, is every bit as much a command to be Polygynous, as a necessary consequence of following the command, as it is to be monog...
by Hugh McBryde
Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:35 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Polygyny: Can a man Scripturally have multiple wives?
Replies: 52
Views: 90548

No, I just don't accept private interpretation foc, 2nd Peter.
by Hugh McBryde
Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:18 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Polygyny: Can a man Scripturally have multiple wives?
Replies: 52
Views: 90548

Oh, I know, NOWHERE.

Where is it stated that there is this "spirit"?
by Hugh McBryde
Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:58 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Polygyny: Can a man Scripturally have multiple wives?
Replies: 52
Views: 90548

foc, you follow me around.

Periodicly you show up and post almost exclusively to topics I post at, in other forums. My remark still stands. The elder monogamy requirement never says the state is ideal. That God intended monogamy, that Polygyny is somehow substandard. I know you interpret it that way, but it doesn't say that a...
by Hugh McBryde
Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:47 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Polygyny: Can a man Scripturally have multiple wives?
Replies: 52
Views: 90548

It's still a lie.

No, it's a lie. I am easily proven the liar by you quoting a verse or two, but you cannot, because there aren't any so you lie.
by Hugh McBryde
Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:40 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Polygyny: Can a man Scripturally have multiple wives?
Replies: 52
Views: 90548

Bald Faced.

"But the manner in which God created the marriage covenant and the limitations placed on those in leadership in the church of not having more than a single wife show us that, while it is tolerated, polygany is not Gods will for marriage and is to be avoided by believers if they arent already in pol...
by Hugh McBryde
Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:23 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Divorce and remarriage
Replies: 15
Views: 23405

One Way Street.

Divorce, scripturally, continues to be allowed only to the husband. The offending party in adultery in a marriage is always the wife when it comes to allowable divorce. The offended party is in the same case, always the husband.

Hugh McBryde
by Hugh McBryde
Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:54 pm
Forum: Hermeneutics and Bible Authority
Topic: Authority of the Old Testament versus the New Testament
Replies: 30
Views: 82123

How much do you know?

"What you are proposing is to suspend the Laws of Language and relevance of Language to communicating concepts and ideas. Instead you have a conclusion that then must eliminate the rules of Language used to build that conclusion. That is very circular logic." No, what I propose is more or less "tri...
by Hugh McBryde
Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:39 pm
Forum: Hermeneutics and Bible Authority
Topic: Authority of the Old Testament versus the New Testament
Replies: 30
Views: 82123

How could Man's law Justify perfectly?

" 'Justified' as defined above is a present tense statement of the state of the individual, NOT a future final judgment of the person..." I suppose you should know that I believe all our acts are reconciled through Christ's finished work on the Cross, the final judgement being the declaration of wh...
by Hugh McBryde
Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:47 pm
Forum: Hermeneutics and Bible Authority
Topic: Authority of the Old Testament versus the New Testament
Replies: 30
Views: 82123

Justification has to do with Judgement.

"The application for being neither Jew or Greek is then within the context of being justified by faith." Correct, justification has to do with Judgment. How are we justified before God? In this context Paul speaks of there being no Jew or Greek, male nor female, etc. Not in the context of our day t...
by Hugh McBryde
Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:47 pm
Forum: Hermeneutics and Bible Authority
Topic: Authority of the Old Testament versus the New Testament
Replies: 30
Views: 82123

As you wish.

To me the problem with your question is in part, it's implications. An approach that erases all race and gender roles is ok, superficially, it's egalitarean. People like it. It seems to be on first reading the most obvious meaning, at least to our culture. Reconcile this with other statements by Pau...
by Hugh McBryde
Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:05 pm
Forum: Hermeneutics and Bible Authority
Topic: Authority of the Old Testament versus the New Testament
Replies: 30
Views: 82123

I have never preached circumcision for salvation.

"Hugh and Lionheart, maybe I missed it somewhere but I didn't see a specific response to my question regarding the need for people today to be circumcised for salvation. If you did and could just highlight the response it would be most helpful." I'm not aware that I have ever preached or implied a ...
by Hugh McBryde
Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:40 pm
Forum: Hermeneutics and Bible Authority
Topic: Authority of the Old Testament versus the New Testament
Replies: 30
Views: 82123

What my contentions are, and are not.

First, I say that all of the 66 books of the Bible as accepted by most "Protestant" denominations are in fact Scripture. Inspired and infallible, bare minimum, in the original languages. Second, I say that all of scripture APPLIES all the time. Now, there's a catch to that one . Let's say that scrip...
by Hugh McBryde
Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:26 pm
Forum: Hermeneutics and Bible Authority
Topic: Authority of the Old Testament versus the New Testament
Replies: 30
Views: 82123

Please excuse me if I missed anything...

"I believe all of the promises and prophecies associated with the Old Law were fulfilled. This goes back to the first question, 'Where is the verse in the Old Law that foretells the resurrection'?" I really don't need to prove this, it is proven already in the bounds of the New Testament. Acts 23:6...
by Hugh McBryde
Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:35 pm
Forum: Hermeneutics and Bible Authority
Topic: Authority of the Old Testament versus the New Testament
Replies: 30
Views: 82123

One Giant Covenant?

"Do you not see how the verse could legitimately be interpreted as I described?" Yup. I can ask the same question though, and once two credible interpretations are on the table, one cannot dogmaticly enforce their interpretation on someone else. My argument also depends on other verses such as the ...
by Hugh McBryde
Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:17 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Polygyny: Can a man Scripturally have multiple wives?
Replies: 52
Views: 90548

Good.

"I accept that the Pentateuch was indeed written by Moses, and he was inspired. I believe he recorded exactly what God wanted him to record ( Number 12:7; Hebrews 3:2, 5; II Peter 1:20-21 ). Neither the accuracy, authorship, or source of those words are being challenged." Good, and this means the f...
by Hugh McBryde
Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:39 pm
Forum: Miscellaneous
Topic: Legal complications in Polygynous Marriages
Replies: 29
Views: 43379

Multiple Anwers.

"In relation to our interpretation of the silence of the Scriptures, how did Jesus reason from Genesis 2:24 ( Matthew 19:4-5 ) to His conclusion in Matthew 19:6 ?" I honestly don't get it. In part, I have answered the "Ishshah" question as many times as I have to illustrate what CAN and CANNOT be C...
by Hugh McBryde
Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:33 pm
Forum: Hermeneutics and Bible Authority
Topic: Authority of the Old Testament versus the New Testament
Replies: 30
Views: 82123

Straw men and Dualism.

M, You use the word "Harmonize" which I believe is a good first step in understanding scripture. Often there SEEM to be contradictions in scripture, that are not there, they are there only in our preconceptions when approaching scripture. I've gone through several major shifts realizing that I'm the...
by Hugh McBryde
Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:05 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Polygyny: Can a man Scripturally have multiple wives?
Replies: 52
Views: 90548

You gotta keep it seperated....

"May I kindly suggest that arguments regarding isha and 'one flesh' be resumed on the first thread on polygamy? Maybe that will help keep things better organized?" In part, I had given up on keeping them seperated. Many people join disscussions and pick at a secondary issue in that discussion, and ...
by Hugh McBryde
Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:39 pm
Forum: Miscellaneous
Topic: Legal complications in Polygynous Marriages
Replies: 29
Views: 43379

If I may ask, for the umpteenth time, for an ANSWER.

"In relation to our interpretation of the silence of the Scriptures, how did Jesus reason from Genesis 2:24 ( Matthew 19:4-5 ) to His conclusion in Matthew 19:6 ?" I honestly don't get it. In part, I have answered the "Ishshah" question as many times as I have to illustrate what CAN and CANNOT be C...
by Hugh McBryde
Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:36 pm
Forum: Miscellaneous
Topic: Legal complications in Polygynous Marriages
Replies: 29
Views: 43379

Chew on this for a while.

"If you could please point out what you think I expanded it would be helpful. I'm just trying to seek an answer from you on the primary point raised by mp, and I agree with him, as key: what is the logical thought process Jesus uses in Matt 19?" I am by no means trying to discredit anything Moses s...
by Hugh McBryde
Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:16 pm
Forum: Miscellaneous
Topic: Legal complications in Polygynous Marriages
Replies: 29
Views: 43379

Jesus, the endorser of lies?

"I will state bluntly then that I am totally confused what the basis of your reasoning is then. In the post before you quoted Deutoronomy as the basis for your syllogistic 'proof' that one flesh is polygynistic as exhibited in the Old Law." Moses did not originate Polygyny. It predates him and was ...
by Hugh McBryde
Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:03 pm
Forum: Hermeneutics and Bible Authority
Topic: Authority of the Old Testament versus the New Testament
Replies: 30
Views: 82123

Superior to all authority here on earth and in scripture.

And that must be harmonized with this. Matthew 5:17-19: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law , till all be fulfilled . Wh...
by Hugh McBryde
Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:07 pm
Forum: Hermeneutics and Bible Authority
Topic: Authority of the Old Testament versus the New Testament
Replies: 30
Views: 82123

Doesn't the New Testament Certify the Old? The New Testament, at a time when there was only the Old to call "Scripture" says "All Scripture is inspired by God" and "Profitable for reproof and teaching".
by Hugh McBryde
Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:04 pm
Forum: Miscellaneous
Topic: Legal complications in Polygynous Marriages
Replies: 29
Views: 43379

Moses the Corrupt?

"There is a very fundamental process at work that Jesus employs: * Genesis beginning pattern (pre-Mosaical law)" Agreed, he refers to an aspect of Adam and Eve's marriage that he certifies as archetypal. That is that marriage was not to end in this life for any reason. I have also addressed this is...
by Hugh McBryde
Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:24 pm
Forum: Miscellaneous
Topic: Legal complications in Polygynous Marriages
Replies: 29
Views: 43379

Syllogism

Sled, The problem with your analysis has been addressed. You're employing a circular assumption with Matthew 19:6 in which you assume there can be no other "one flesh" relationships. The Syllogism that disproves this works as follows. A.) We know from Genesis 2:24 that you ARE one flesh with your wi...
by Hugh McBryde
Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:42 am
Forum: Miscellaneous
Topic: Legal complications in Polygynous Marriages
Replies: 29
Views: 43379

Hello Again.

"Do you want to resolve our differences?" Always. In the end we both know they WILL be resolved. Better that we find as much truth and act on it in this life than to wait for God to show his hand at the end of the game. " Authority of the Old Testament - This seems to be the greatest point of diffe...
by Hugh McBryde
Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:37 pm
Forum: Miscellaneous
Topic: In the heat of battle, what should be allowed?
Replies: 3
Views: 8612

Name calling

I think you are correct to point out that Name Calling is used in scripture, by the most righteous of people, namely Christ himself. The condition always for name calling is that it must at least be true. It should not be gratuitous. It might be true for instance that a poster once appeared in Playb...
by Hugh McBryde
Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:15 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Divorce and remarriage
Replies: 15
Views: 23405

There is no Conflict.

Paul and Christ either agree, or we are lost.
by Hugh McBryde
Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:39 pm
Forum: Miscellaneous
Topic: Legal complications in Polygynous Marriages
Replies: 29
Views: 43379

Straying a bit from the topic.

Hardly, but you asked for condoning which probably requires God to compell someone to enter a Polygynous marriage. There aren't many compulsions to marry in the law. A man who behaves himself sexually is never required to get married, so you were indeed looking for an unlikely compulsion, however th...
by Hugh McBryde
Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:28 pm
Forum: Miscellaneous
Topic: Legal complications in Polygynous Marriages
Replies: 29
Views: 43379

All? It should be enough.

So it's kind of weak to you. When Deuteronomy 25 REQUIRES, not asks, not gives "option" to take a dead brothers wife, you are supposing that in every case where this law was enacted, it was done with a single brother waiting in the wings to clean up after his dead brother's failure to produce heirs?...
by Hugh McBryde
Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:18 pm
Forum: Miscellaneous
Topic: Legal complications in Polygynous Marriages
Replies: 29
Views: 43379

Here, I think.

"I understand your concern, but my point is that these are all non-issues, if you follow God's pattern for marriage." I am not trying to incite m27, but I think you cannot be relied on to defend marriage, you don't know what it is. "In regards to Scriptures, are you aware of any passages that condo...
by Hugh McBryde
Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:05 am
Forum: Miscellaneous
Topic: Legal complications in Polygynous Marriages
Replies: 29
Views: 43379

Flightless Bird

"This sounds like a very good argument against polygyny." Then you missed the point. The world will not stop at the stage of allowing a man to marry more than one woman, they are going right to clan/group/communal marriages. The point of the initial post is not to play "hide our head in the sand" a...
by Hugh McBryde
Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:29 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Why don't wives attempt to submit to their husbands?
Replies: 8
Views: 13763

They SHOULD submit, but they don't.

Granted, when we listened to our wives instead of God, we asked for it. But that is beside the point, I acknowledge my place as Adam's son and I inherit his flaws. We've gone a bit farther than Adam. We've willingly made our women real partners, in the worst sort of way.
by Hugh McBryde
Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:20 pm
Forum: Miscellaneous
Topic: Legal complications in Polygynous Marriages
Replies: 29
Views: 43379

I've been saying this was going to happen for a while.

May 31, 2006 "Multiple-wife marriages have been legally recognized in Canada to award spousal support and inheritance payments. The former Liberal government long maintained that polygamy is criminal in Canada but documents obtained by Sun Media under Access to Information show that polygamous marr...
by Hugh McBryde
Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:46 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Divorce and remarriage
Replies: 15
Views: 23405

That's all folks.

Assuming both parties in the divorce are believers, no.
by Hugh McBryde
Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:04 pm
Forum: Introduction
Topic: Hugh McBryde
Replies: 2
Views: 9801

They can best explain themselves :)

http://www.pcanet.org/general/aboutpca.htm The "Presbyterian Church in America".

http://www.opc.org/machen.html The "Orthodox Presbyterian Church".
by Hugh McBryde
Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:50 pm
Forum: Introduction
Topic: Hugh McBryde
Replies: 2
Views: 9801

Introducing Moi.

Where did you grow up? Kwangju South Korea mostly, I was born in Durham NC, moved to Lexington KY in 1957 and my father left for the mission field shortly afterwards. I grew up in South Korea. How did you come to be interested in spiritual things? Miss Florence Root was a single woman missionary, s...
by Hugh McBryde
Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:43 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Polygyny: Can a man Scripturally have multiple wives?
Replies: 52
Views: 90548

Conservative and REFORMED.

"To both Hugh and sprky777: Are you Mormons? I am unaware of any other belief system that would label itself as "Christianity" and profess polygamy (polygny)." Emphaticly NO. I am PCA http://www.pcanet.org/ . The LDS or any variation thereof if sincere believers in what their "churches" teach, are ...
by Hugh McBryde
Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:47 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Polygyny: Can a man Scripturally have multiple wives?
Replies: 52
Views: 90548

And I am still astounded.

"Hugh, you are all over the place. Introducing things that are only confusing the point." Let's be polite, shall we? I think my points are organized and to the point. This is mere gainsaying. I won't engage in a discussion where it is simply a more erudite version of "your mother wears army boots"....
by Hugh McBryde
Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:09 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Polygyny: Can a man Scripturally have multiple wives?
Replies: 52
Views: 90548

This is partly a matter of perspective on scripture.

"Hugh, you are missing the point. Exodus 21 offers no condemnation of taking another wife. It only regulates the practice by demanding that the first wife not be deprived of her due." Precisely. In this passage, which is immediately next door to the "10 Commandments" where it says "thou shalt not c...
by Hugh McBryde
Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:53 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Polygyny: Can a man Scripturally have multiple wives?
Replies: 52
Views: 90548

How many sins?

"In fact, you surrendered your position." I always give special consideration to posts with this expansive a claim. "Where did Jesus say, 'marry another man’s wife '? Jesus just said,'whoever ... marries another'. You are inserting words that are not there. Why are you restricting what the Lord lef...
by Hugh McBryde
Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:26 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Polygyny: Can a man Scripturally have multiple wives?
Replies: 52
Views: 90548

Divorce is not related to Polygyny in this way.

"If marrying an additional wife is acceptable in the New Testament, then why did Jesus say that divorce followed by a second marriage was 'adultery' or 'fornication [/b]?' Because he does not say that, and you note that here: "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immoralit...
by Hugh McBryde
Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:36 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Polygyny: Can a man Scripturally have multiple wives?
Replies: 52
Views: 90548

Syllogisms.

"When did the statment in Deuteronomy 25:5-10, chronologically occur in time?" AFTER Genesis 2:24, but written by the same author, Moses, probably at the same time, roughly. For all we know he wrote Genesis after Deuteronomy. In any case the same understandings are in place. "When was the pattern o...
by Hugh McBryde
Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:08 pm
Forum: Morality
Topic: Polygyny: Can a man Scripturally have multiple wives?
Replies: 52
Views: 90548

One more time, into the breach....

"You ignore that a 'leaving and cleaving' followed by another 'cleaving' would violate the 'one flesh' relationship. The man is acting out of his own will in marrying another, not out of the 'one flesh' that he and his wife have formed. But, yet you ignore that." Clearly this law in Deuteronomy 25:...