Experiencing God (Buddhism)

Place to discuss the reasons for our faith (I Peter 3:15)

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Experiencing God (Buddhism)

Post by email » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:39 am

Thanks for taking it to online - seeking of truth. The truth is that we are all running from it, trying to 'seek' it or find it some time in the future. To have something we can believe in it. To build yet another mind structure based on things written in bible. How about looking into yourself without any beliefs, and ego attached, and realizing who you really are? Try to read eastern books, like Bhagavad Gita and Zen. The truth is not in the words, all words point to truth, analyzing words we loose sight of where they were trying to point to... By the way Jesus studied in India before he came to Jerusalem to teach.
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hi

Post by m273p15c » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:46 am

As you know, many people claim to have the answers to life's questions. Unfortunately, we only have one life to "try" a solution.

What do Eastern religions and their books offer, which makes them more believable as the TRUE religion? How would someone know that these religions are true, and not just the accumulation of human wisdom and philosophy?

Please consider that there are many religions that claim to be the ONE TRUTH or the MOST accurate religion. Why should someone invest his or her life in Hinduism, Buddhism, or Taoism, instead of Christianity?

If a religion is identified internally (arises from within me), how would I know it is not a formalization or rationalization of my base desires? How would I know that such a religions is true?

Incidentally, how do you know that Jesus studied in India first? He who asserts, must prove.

May God help us to have a sincere love of truth,

m273p15c
May God help us to love truth sincerely and supremely (II Thessalonians 2:11-12)

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Re: hi

Post by email » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:38 pm

Thank you for a prompt response,

I want to ask you a question :

Is desire - a desire if you don't label it "desire"? Or is it something that You are witnessing and labeling "desire" for convenience?

Is God a God if you don't label it "God"? Or what is it if you don't give it a certian name...?

Is Truth a Truth if you don't label it "Truth"? Isn't it then just what is...?

Is Label a Label if it was not You who can use it for convenience...to define "Truth" for example?

First was a Word... remember?

Religions operate with beliefs which are thoughts... I invite you to step beyond ANY beliefs and labels.

Have you read book by Ekhart Tolle - A New Earth?

P.S. regarding Jesus studying in India - search for the fact yourself, don't just believe what I said or what anybody else says.
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hi

Post by m273p15c » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:11 pm

Words are vehicles to convey thoughts. God's thoughts are true. Jesus is "THE Word", because He was the living embodiment of God's thoughts for us (John 1:1-4; 14:8-11).

Reality exists beyond whatever labels or words we apply, because we can be wrong, which brings me back to my original point:

What proof do you offer that your words are true? Why should I believe you instead of someone else.

If you are going to tell me to go read a book, please consider that I get many emails like this almost every day. If you know some truth, and if you would like for me to know that truth, then please tell it to me.

No, I have not read the book you mentioned. Have you read the Bible all the way through with an open mind?

May God help us to have a sincere love of truth,

m273p15c
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Re: hi

Post by email » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:00 pm

God is beyond any thought...and cannot be proved by any thought...

Thought is an abstraction... - God is a reality.

Got it?
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hi

Post by m273p15c » Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:45 am

So, you are saying that eastern religions offer no proof or evidence for their truthfulness? If not, what do they offer?

And, no, all thought is not abstraction. Can God think? Are His thoughts real? Can God not demonstrate or communicate His reality to us? Was Jesus not real? After all, He was and is "The Word" (John 1:1-4; 14:8-11)?

I choose religion based not on personal, subjective appeal, but on evidence of its veracity and truthfulness.

May God help us to have a sincere love of truth,

m273p15c
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Re: hi

Post by email » Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:18 am

Can you give me a thought which is not an abstraction?

Thought is a form, it is finite in order to be comprehensible. God is infinite, can something finite describe something infinite?

When I say "ice cream" - is it the same as eating ice cream? No, "ice cream"is an abstraction of a real ice cream, and no definition or proof of existance of "ice cream" will make you full... ever... until you go and eat the ice cream by yourself.
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hi

Post by m273p15c » Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:41 am

You would have a point, IF my God was my invention and original conception, or that of some man. Therein lies your assumption.

The real question is can God, the true God convey Himself sufficiently to man to know God exists and obey Him? You believe He cannot. I believe He has.

I point to the Bible, miracles, fulfilled prophecies, textual preservation, and history to support my beliefs. The Bible is "God breathered", and therefore, it conveys what I need to know "for life and godliness" (II Timothy 3:16-17; II Peter 1:2-3). You can read more, beginning with what I have written here:

http://www.insearchoftruth.org/articles/god.html

To what do you point?

If you can make a case that is more compelling, then please do so. Everything else is confusion or appeal.

Please, make your case.

m273p15c
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Re: hi

Post by email » Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:22 am

Hi m273p15c,
You would have a point, IF my God was my invention and original conception, or that of some man. Therein lies your assumption.
As long as you talk and think aboutGod - itdoes exist as a concept for you, not orginal - but inherited concept in your head(I assume from from Bible studies)
The real question is can God, the true God convey Himself sufficiently to man to know God exists and obey Him? You believe He cannot. I believe He has.
The know you are trying to knowGodis as a thought vs experience. And to know God as a thoughtis impossible, not because Ibelieve it but because every thought is limited, it is as if you are trying to calculate dimensions of universe (God) with a yard stick (thought)
I point to the Bible, miracles, fulfilled prophecies, textual preservation, and history to support my beliefs. The Bible is "God breathered", and therefore, it conveys what I need to know "for life and godliness" (II Timothy 3:16-17; II Peter 1:2-3). You can read more, beginning with what I have written here:
http://www.insearchoftruth.org/articles/god.html
It is all true but you miss the point
To what do you point?
To know God with your heart vs brain. And I see that you don't see a difference here... it is all undestandings ... and beliefs.... and proofs.... that you are looking for... which is pure brain activity... thoughts end even more thoughts... and more proofs -whichare yet another thougths... And that is how people miss the point. Not just you, all Christian talk (thoughts) is just that - thoughts. God exists as a thought (believe), folks don't see Life as Life - they see Life a s a belief (thought)in God (which is another concept).

God is idolized and defined, it is a part of a dictionary with another words - clearly defined and catalogized. Brain took you over my friend, and not just you - virtually all the humanity. And it is impossible to see it , because untill you see a difference between brain and You - there is no hope -> it will be more theories (thoughts) and longings for proofs (another thoughts)...

Wish you peace (from brain)
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Re: hi

Post by email » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:46 pm

I found these scriptures for you from Bible:

"the carnal mind is an enemy of God" (Romans 8:7)

"To be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace" (Romans 8:6)

Peace,
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hi

Post by m273p15c » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:05 pm

I do indeed understand your point. You believe that God cannot be understood, only felt. You have limited God. You believe that He cannot use words to convey Himself, if He so chooses. You have presupposed that words and thoughts are inferior to emotion.

Since God is a spirit (John 4:24), He cannot be "felt" or experienced by the 5 physical senses, unless He physically manifests Himself (Luke 24:36-43). On this, I think we agree.

Outside of the 5 physical senses, I know of only 2 other paths to achieve awareness: mental and emotional. Do you know another? (Incidentally, each of these rely on information gathered through the five sense, before they can produce a higher level of awareness.)

You should know that Christianity recognizes both as part of spiritual life, and Christians operate in both spheres (II Timothy 3:16-17; Romans 14:17). However, Christianity does not offer a teacher's emotion as the proof to persuade or power to convert. God used a message, words, and thoughts, which when we read or hear, we can then understand, gain comfort, wisdom, and direction (Romans 1:16; I Thessalonians 4:18; Ephesians 3:3-5). Therefore, Christianity is fundamentally a rational, reasonable religion (Isaiah 1:18; Romans 12:1). Emotion arises from that understanding, not the other way around.

I also feel and emotionally experience God, but I do not offer it as proof, because I know emotional experience is highly subjective and easily deceived. For example, consider all the religions around the world, whose members "feel" they are exclusively right. Yet, they cannot be all right, because they unabashedly exclude the others. Therefore, emotion has led some of them, if not all of them, astray. Furthermore, certain songs can make me feel very young, vivacious, and fleet, but when my feet touch the floor and strain to accelerate, I am forced to accept that those days have passed, regardless of how I feel. In short, just because I feel something, that does not make it true. This is self-evident.

If all you offer is an experience to emotionally feel your god, then you cannot persuade me. If you will not accept thoughts and words as a vehicle to persuade, then we are operating from two irreconcilable platforms.

It is ironic to me that you use words to argue with me, and we both understand what each other is saying, even in respect to our differences. ... If words are so weak, then why do you use them, especially in arguments about the infinite? ... Incidentally, how would your life work (assuming your are not a professional preacher of your religion), if you operated in life this way? What if you detected, communicated, and verified truth through emotion? How would that work?

Thanks you for your time, energy, and compassion.

May God help us to have a sincere love of truth,

m273p15c

BTW, in reference to the verses you quoted (Romans 8:6-7), please notice that both attitudes depend on our "minds" ("carnally minded" versus "spiritually minded"). The contrast is between priority (this world versus the next), not means of awareness (mental versus emotional). Otherwise, we would expect to see contrasts between "carnally minded" and "spiritually feeling". You see, when you read, you can understand -- if you want to understand (II Thessalonians 2:9-12). :-)
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Re: hi

Post by email » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:49 pm

Hi m273p15c,
I do indeed understand your point. You believe that God cannot be understood, only felt.
I never said anything about feelings at all. Thoughts, feeling - are works of brain & body. The experience of God is another thing. And I say experience because that is the best word I can use for it - without mixing in thinking and feelings. Don't get attached to the word, unless you have the experience of God yourself - no word can recreate the experience for yourself.
You have limited God. You believe that He cannot use words to convey Himself, if He so chooses.
Words do help to convey the message, but words are never - THE message! Because God is incomprehensible by human mind...
You have presupposed that words and thoughts are inferior to emotion.
Never said that.
Since God is a spirit (John 4:24), He cannot be "felt" or experienced by the 5 physical senses, unless He physically manifests Himself (Luke 24:36-43). On this, I think we agree.
Yes sure, I was not talking about feelings
Outside of the 5 physical senses, I know of only 2 other paths to achieve awareness: mental and emotional. Do you know another? (Incidentally, each of these rely on information gathered through the five sense, before they can produce a higher level of awareness.)
Yes, there is a third one - a spiritual awareness. It is neither through mind or emotions.
You should know that Christianity recognizes both as part of spiritual life, and Christians operate in both spheres (II Timothy 3:16-17; Romans 14:17). However, Christianity does not offer a teacher's emotion as the proof to persuade or power to convert. God used a message, words, and thoughts, which when we read or hear, we can then understand, gain comfort, wisdom, and direction (Romans 1:16; I Thessalonians 4:18; Ephesians 3:3-5). Therefore, Christianity is fundamentally a rational, reasonable religion (Isaiah 1:18; Romans 12:1). Emotion arises from that understanding, not the other way around.

I also feel and emotionally experience God, but I do not offer it as proof, because I know emotional experience is highly subjective and easily deceived. For example, consider all the religions around the world, whose members "feel" they are exclusively right. Yet, they cannot be all right, because they unabashedly exclude the others. Therefore, emotion has led some of them, if not all of them, astray. Furthermore, certain songs can make me feel very young, vivacious, and fleet, but when my feet touch the floor and strain to accelerate, I am forced to accept that those days have passed, regardless of how I feel. In short, just because I feel something, that does not make it true. This is self-evident.
Feelings are mechanics of body - not a spiritual experience.
If all you offer is an experience to emotionally feel your god, then you cannot persuade me. If you will not accept thoughts and words as a vehicle to persuade, then we are operating from two irreconcilable platforms.
No, i invite you to have that spiritual experience as I did :)
It is ironic to me that you use words to argue with me, and we both understand what each other is saying, even in respect to our differences. ... If words are so weak, then why do you use them, especially in arguments about the infinite? ...
Words are not week, the are just limited. Words are like signposts - pointing to a certain direction. If we stop and start analyzing the signpost, instead of going to the direction it points to - we will be stuck. And then every religion compares and polishes its own sighnposts, and is stuck forever, trying to read an answer on the signpost, instaed of just going in the direction it points to.
Incidentally, how would your life work (assuming your are not a professional preacher of your religion), if you operated in life this way? What if you detected, communicated, and verified truth through emotion? How would that work?
I never talked about emotions again...
Thanks you for your time, energy, and compassion.
U 2! :)
BTW, in references to the verses you quoted (Romans 8:6-7), please notice that both attitudes depend on our "minds" ("carnally minded" versus "spiritually minded"). The contrast is between priority (this world versus the next), not means of awareness (mental versus emotional). Otherwise, we would expect to see contrasts between "carnally minded" and "spiritually feeling". You see, when you read, you can understand -- if you want to understand (II Thessalonians 2:9-12). :-)
Here you are analysing signposts again :)God is incomprehensible, stop trying to understand or feel him... experience him... beyond thought or emotion!

Peace
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hi

Post by m273p15c » Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:33 pm

Ok, so please explain how one "experiences" God beyond the 5 physical senses, the mind, and the emotion? Also, how can someone be sure that this "experience" is the product of God, not an enemy (like the Devil), and not our own desires?
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Re: hi

Post by email » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:54 pm

God is unexplainable and unsensable. But to get the experience please read the book by Eckhart Tolle "A New Earth". You know that it is experience of God when you experience it, you actually have had that experience already some fleeting moments, lasting microseconds... and most probably you was not aware of it, but this book will guide you to expand those moments.

And experience of "Devil" is through thinking and emotions :)
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