apostasy, blasphemy of Holy Spirit, baptism, HSpirit leading

What can I do to be saved? Place to discuss sin and its remedy.

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apostasy, blasphemy of Holy Spirit, baptism, HSpirit leading

Post by email » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:24 am

Hello. I read your article. I'm scared I lost my Salvation by sinning after I Accepted Christ As My Lord and Saviour. Do you know how I would know if I have been permanently cut off. I feel like I am but when I Pray and Have Faith I Feel Close to God again. Can you help me out on this. Thank you. Love In Christ ...
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fall from Grace

Post by m273p15c » Mon May 01, 2006 11:09 pm

This is a very good and important question! Thanks for asking it. I pray this answer will be helpful to you in understanding God's revelation on this applicable point.

You should know that our feelings are little to no indication of our true spiritual status before God. In fact, our feelings can be very deceptive (Jeremiah 10:23; Proverbs 14:12). As illustration of this point, please consider that the Old Testament contains many examples of people who genuinely felt they were doing God's will, but they could not have been further from the truth. (God intended us to learn from these examples - I Corinthians 10:6-12; Romans 15:4.) Some of these examples include: Nadab and Abihu (Leviticus 10:1-3), Saul (I Samuel 15:22-23), Uzzah (Numbers 4:5-6, 15; II Samuel 6:3-9; I Chronicles 15:2, 13, 15), Uzziah (II Chronicles 26:3-5, 15-21). Probably one of the more notable examples left for us was the apostle Paul. Before he became a Christian, he persecuted them - even putting them to death (Acts 26:9-11)! Yet, the whole time, his conscience never warned him (Acts 23:1). He felt pretty good, even though he was committing heinous sin, simply because he had not been taught any better (I Timothy 1:13-16)! While we are on this topic, please consider the Christians who were being persecuted, torn from their families, and even executed by Saul: Do you think they felt happy? Probably not, but yet Jesus said, "Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you ... Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven" (Matthew 5:10-12). So, from these passages, we learn that we can feel good, even while sinning profoundly. Moreover, we may feel bad, even though our Father is thrilled with us! Therefore, we see that our feelings do not necessarily reflect our true spiritual condition. Furthermore, Jesus recommends we bring our feelings in line with our spiritual condition (Matthew 5:10-12; 6:25-34). Therefore, we are to make our feelings follow our salvation, not the other way around. (Admittedly, it is easier to say than do, but that is our goal. :-)

If our feelings do not indicate our true spiritual status, then what does? The book of I John answers this question. Please consider the following (somewhat lengthy but essential) compendium of verses:
  • "Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him." (I John 2:3-5)
  • "We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoever has this world's goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?" (I John 3:14-17)
  • "My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.... Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us." (I John 3:18-24)
  • "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. ... They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error." (I John 4:1-6 compare with I John 1:1-4)
  • "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love." (I John 4:7-8)
  • "Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world -- our faith. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?" (I John 5:1-5)
  • "And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God." (I John 5:11-13 compare with I John 1:3-4)
There are many profound truths buried in these passages, most of which I must gloss over for the sake of brevity, so please allow me to simplify these passages in application to your question as follows: The apostle John list the following personal attributes, which give us assurance of our eternal salvation:
  • obedience to the truth, God's commandments (see also Matthew 7:21-23)
  • selfless love of our brethren (sacrificial love, not merely an emotional response - I Corinthians 13:1-ff)
  • recognition and acceptance of Jesus' teaching given through His apostles and prophets -> The Bible ("He who knows God hears us"; compare with I Corinthians 2:10-16; 14:37-38; Ephesians 3:3-5)
  • faith in Jesus Christ!
Please note that John states the purpose for writing this letter was so that disciples would know that they have eternal life! Therefore, these virtues form the God-given foundation for confidence in our relationship with God! Consequently, if we do not have these things, then the Bible offers us no assurance. Therefore, we must now focus on these questions, which only you can answer at this point:
  • Do you believe in God and Jesus as His Son?
  • Have you accepted the Bible as God's truth?
  • Are you obeying God's commandments, as expressed by His holy apostles and prophets in the Scriptures?
  • Is your life manifesting this commitment through loving others, as God first loved us?
Many false teachers have gone out into the world, who express a popular plan of salvation that satisfies man's desires, but it is contrary with God's revealed will. Since I do not know much about your religious background, we should first focus on the questions, "Were you converted like the New Testament saints?" "Have you met God's requirements for salvation?" Please see this article for more detail:

http://www.insearchoftruth.org/articles/salvation.html

If you are struggling with assurance with your salvation, it may be because you sincerely believed and obeyed what men were teaching, instead of what God was teaching? Men's teaching will satisfy for a while, but God's truth will satisfy for eternity. Please don't be too upset, if that's what you have done. Like the persecutor Saul, who became the great apostle Paul, we must both look to the future, not what lies behind us (Philippians 3:13-17). We must repent and move forward, trusting in God to forgive as He has promised (Hebrews 11:6).

What do you think? Please take a look at the above article and get back with me. I look forward to hearing from you again.

May God bless us with a sincere love of the truth,

m273p15c

P.S., Did you catch that statement in I John 3:18-19, "For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things"? Sometimes we may be persuaded of our damnation, even though we are giving our utmost, diligent best to obey serve God. In such cases, God may be very well pleased with us, even though we are convinced He feels otherwise. John assures us that God "knows all things"; therefore, as is implied, He will save us when we do what's right, even if we feel we are somehow still unsatisfactory, even with the support of God's grace. God does not want us to live with that unnecessary fear. That is why this letter was written. I pray that this brief note highlights the spiritual benefit that God desired you to enjoy! :-)

P.S. #2, Sometimes people ask this question in relation to the "sin against the Holy Spirit". I do not think you mentioned this, but if this somehow played into your concern, please let me know, and I will be glad to focus on a few passages regarding the "unforgivable sin".

P.S. #3, I know that that this contains a lot of Bible verses. I would encourage you to take your time, study each passage closely, meditate on them, and pray fervently. It could be that they contain the information that will change your life forever!
May God help us to love truth sincerely and supremely (II Thessalonians 2:11-12)

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blasphemy of the Holy Spirit

Post by email » Tue May 02, 2006 6:49 am

Hi. thanks for answering me. I was very afraid that Hebrews 6:4-6 applied to me and that therefore I could never be Saved; that I was just enlightened and thus upon falling back I could never be renewed to repentance. Do you know anything about this. Thanks again for your time. Love In Christ ...
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Re: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit

Post by m273p15c » Tue May 02, 2006 7:49 am

In brief, the "sin against the Holy Spirit" relates to those who understand and reject the work of the Spirit, revelation of truth. These are people who fully know the truth and turn away from it.

Notice that is impossible to "renew them". It is not impossible for them to be renewed. As illustration, if you fall away, what message can I bring to you, that you do not already know? If you know the Spirit's truth, then there is no tool in the Christian's weaponry to bring you back. The sword of the Spirit (the truth, the Bible) is the only weapon we have (Ephesians 6:11-17). Once a person puts themselves beyond the reach of the Bible, there is nothing left that we can do to renew them. Their conscience is no longer open or sensitive to the message of a loving, sacrificial Savior, because they in essence have willingly and deliberately "crucified Him afresh".

This does not refer to any sin we commit once becoming a Christian. Notice that John describes provision for this sin:

"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." (I John 1:7-2:2)

The problem with the "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit" is that the person's conscience has become hardened, such that they are unwilling to confess their sins. They have fully known the truth, but for whatever reason, they reject it, despite all they have learned and know. Therefore, there is nothing left that either we or the Spirit can do. They have cut themselves off from any saving method.

So, as long as you are worried that you may have committed the "unforgivable sin", you are safe from that concern, because it relates to those with a hardened conscience. However, I cannot offer you assurance regarding your salvation in general, given our past question and concerns.

I pray this helps, and I look forward to hearing from you again soon.

m273p15c
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RE: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit

Post by email » Tue May 02, 2006 2:27 pm

Well, this is what I am really afraid of- I did have this knowledge and then I deliberately disobeyed The Holy Spirit- I have never felt Close to God Since- and this has been three years. Except when I Pray to God I Feel His Closeness Again and when there have been times when I have been tempted to just say that I committed this sin and there is nothing else I can do- I get this sinking feeling that tells me that I should not do this. I really do appreciate you communicating with me on this- I wish I could know for sure or at least know what to do. Thanks again for everything. Love In Christ ...
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Re: blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and Bible conversion

Post by m273p15c » Tue May 02, 2006 3:13 pm

First, I fear that part of your uncertainty may be because you have not adhered to the Bible pattern for conversion. I do not know, but I am concerned based on some of your previous statements. If this needs to be corrected, then you will not find the security you desire, simply because your conversion is grounded in the commandments of men, not God. Please examine this article and let me know if this reflects your conversion:

http://www.insearchoftruth.org/articles/salvation.html

Did you repent, confess, and submit to baptism as part of your conversion? The foundation must be firm, before it can support weight.

Second, you have not blasphemed the Holy Spirit, if you are still worried that you have. If you have disobeyed His commands, you may have "grieved" Him, but you have not blasphemed Him, because your conscience remains sensitive to God's Word. So, what should you do?
  • Correct any wrong - Repent of any sin, confess your sin (Acts 8:20-23; I John 1:7-2:2)
  • Grow stronger in God: study the Bible, pray, assemble regularly with saints as prescribed in the Bible, surround yourself with good influences (II Timothy 3:16-17; I Thessalonians 5:17; Hebrews 10:24-25; Philippians 4:4-8)
  • Grow weaker in this world: As much as possible, cut off any influences that strengthen or appeal to your lusts, such as immoral content (sexual, pornographic, violent, filthy, blasphemous) found on the internet, television, radio, magazines. Distance yourself from immoral friends, etc... (II Corinthians 6:14-18; I Corinthians 15:33)
  • Avoid sin by avoiding opportunities to sin - "do not make provision to sin" - think multiple "moves" ahead, like you were playing spiritual chess... (Romans 13:11-14)
  • Have faith in God! "Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, ... let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful." (Hebrews10:19-23)
Ultimately, this a question of desire, faith, and obedience. Do you really want to be saved? Have you done what God has asked? Do you believe He will keep His promise?

The only sin which cannot be forgiven is the one from which you are unwilling to repent. There is always hope, provided you are willing to repent, trust, and obey.

I pray this helps. Let me know what I can do.
May God help us to love truth sincerely and supremely (II Thessalonians 2:11-12)

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RE: fall from Grace

Post by email » Wed May 03, 2006 9:12 am

Thanks so much for you concern and time. I'll try and follow this article that you sent me. I asked Jesus to Forgive my sins about 22 years ago and I said the sinner's Prayer but I think I may not have given Christ complete control of my heart and life. I'll keep trying. Thanks again so much. Love In Christ ...
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Re: fall from Grace

Post by m273p15c » Wed May 03, 2006 9:45 am

Thanks for the explanation! Did you know the "sinner's prayer" is not to be found anywhere in the Bible?! Sure, many preachers talk like you can turn to some verse and find it, but it is simply not there! This doctrine is a necessary component of popular human traditions, but it is not consistent with Scripture. This truth is surprising to many people, because they have heard it taught and seen it demonstrated all their lives!

I believe the Bible teachers a significantly different pattern of requirements for us to obtain salvation (hear the gospel, believe in Jesus, repent of our sins, confess Jesus, and be baptized for the remission of sins - Mark 16:15-16; Acts 2:37-38, Galatians 3:26-27, Romans 10:10-13; Acts 22:16 and many more...). I hope that you will be able to find the article easy to understand, because I believe it expresses the Bible pattern quite clearly and simply.

The article (and others referenced by it) will probably generate some good questions. Please feel free to forward them on to me, because it may be critical to answer and examine them closely.

I look forward to hearing from you again. Thanks for your patient following of these thoughts! :-) I pray that it will prove eternally profitable to both of us.

May God bless us with a sincere love of the truth,

m273p15c
May God help us to love truth sincerely and supremely (II Thessalonians 2:11-12)

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RE: fall from Grace

Post by email » Wed May 03, 2006 11:08 am

Thanks again. So there is no way I could have committed the unpardonable sin. I'll try to get a new start with Christ then. God Bless you Always. Love In Christ ...
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Re: fall from Grace

Post by m273p15c » Wed May 03, 2006 11:22 am

One commits an unpardonable sin by permanently turning his back to the Spirit's work, either the revelation or the confirmation of the Word of God (Mark 3:22, 28-30). As long as your heart, your conscience remains sensitive to the Bible, and you do not dismiss God's Word, you should be ok in regards to this particular sin.

Consequently, I would encourage you to study the Bible and obey it, because prolonged failure to study sets one up for this sin. Skipping Bible study is one way to dismiss the work of the Spirit. A lifetime of ignoring it would constitute committing the unpardonable sin.

I pray this helps. If I can help in any other way, please let me know.

May God bless us both with open eyes, honest ears, and tender hearts,

m273p15c
May God help us to love truth sincerely and supremely (II Thessalonians 2:11-12)

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RE: fall from Grace

Post by email » Wed May 03, 2006 12:14 pm

Thanks again. Love In Christ ...
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Re: fall from Grace

Post by m273p15c » Wed May 03, 2006 12:47 pm

no problem - glad to help
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RE: fall from Grace

Post by email » Thu May 04, 2006 5:48 am

I went to Church last night and The Holy Spirit seemed to keep telling me to ask Jesus for Forgiveness. Love In Christ ...
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Holy Spirit leading and communicating directly

Post by m273p15c » Thu May 04, 2006 9:34 am

I am very glad to hear that you assembled last night with other Christians. That is very good! (Hebrews 10:24-25) I praise you for this good step!!

However, I must confess that I am concerned that you believe the Holy Spirit is communicating directly with you. Admittedly, many people share this belief, but the Bible teaches that direct communication with the Holy Spirit, also known as inspiration, was limited to a small subset of of first century Christians - the apostles and prophets (Ephesians 3:3-5). This verse also states that we can share their knowledge, not by inspiration, but by reading what they wrote:
"how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ ), which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets:" (Ephesians 3:3-5)
Therefore, the Spirit communicates, not through feelings, intimations, or any other direct form of communication, but through the Word of God, which He revealed and confirmed.

Furthermore, you would need to test the revelation by comparing it against previous revelation. Maybe it was not the Spirit that was communicating with you...
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. ...They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error." (I John 4:1-6)
I offer this as a simple warning: Please be sure that you are following God's revealed will in Scripture, because that is the standard by which we will be ultimately judged (John 12:48). Please be careful that you do not follow your feelings in place of the Scripture, which is the confirmed voice of the Holy Spirit. Remember our study regarding feelings from previous studies...

Finally, please recall that New Testament revelation, communication by the Holy Spirit, was always corroborated by external, undeniable evidence, such as miracles (Hebrews 2:1-4). Unless one can work undeniable miracles (raising people from the dead, making paralyzed walk, restoring missing limbs, etc.), then we should suspect the origin of the message.

I am sorry that this may come as an initial discouragement, especially after you have done such a good thing by returning to church. But, I am greatly concerned that you are misplacing your trust by relying on what seems to be the Spirit's will instead of trusting in what you know is the Spirit's will - the Bible. ... Only love motivates my words.

One of the ways people commit blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is by ignoring the Bible (the Holy Spirit's message) and following their own thoughts instead, supposing them to be the direct message of the Holy Spirit. I can't tell you how many times I have heard people say, "I know the Bible says that I should not do such and such, but the Holy Spirit said it was OK." Maybe I am overreacting, but please do not let yourself fall into this deadly trap.

May God bless us with an ever increasing love of the truth,

m273p15c
May God help us to love truth sincerely and supremely (II Thessalonians 2:11-12)

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RE: fall from Grace

Post by email » Thu May 04, 2006 2:02 pm

In all honesty I was depending on my feelings. I felt The Holy Spirit was telling me to ask Jesus' Forgiveness. This is a Charismatic Church and a large part of the Praise service is Praying Privately to one's self. So what do I do at this point? Scripture does Say to ask God's Forgiveness for sins- although I was Praying for just a general Forgiveness. Thanks. Love In Christ ...
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When were you saved? When were your sins forgiven?

Post by m273p15c » Thu May 04, 2006 8:17 pm

You are correct. You absolutely should seek and ask for forgiveness of sins. I did not intend to discourage that important action and direction you are taking.

But, let's back up for just a second - kind of "first things first", if you will: Let's talk about conversion, if you don't mind. Clearly you believe in Jesus as the Son of God. I am assuming that you have repented of your sins in an effort to commit your life to Jesus. What can you tell me about your confession and baptism? Have you confessed Jesus before men (Acts 8:37-38; Matthew 10:32-33)? Have you been baptized for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:37-38)? The key on this last point is to consider: Were you baptized after you were saved, or to be saved (I Peter 3:21)? If you were baptized, but not for the right reason, then you will need to be baptized again - just like the Ephesians who were also baptized in water, but for the wrong reason (Acts 19:1-4).

Assuming that all of this was done correctly, then yes, all you have to do is confess your sins and ask forgiveness of sins (I John 1:7-2:2 ; Acts 8:21-23).

I am looking forward to hearing from you.

In Christian love,

m273p15c
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conversion may have not been genuine

Post by email » Mon May 08, 2006 10:17 am

Hi. Thanks for your note. What I'm basically afraid of is that my conversion was not genuine- only an enlightment- and therefore upon falling back I can no longer get Saved again- so that basically I am doomed. But then when I try to admit this I get a real bad feeling so I continue to struggle. When I Pray I do feel God is With me. But I feel very isolated and cut off. In 1984 I asked Jesus to Forgive my sins. then later I said the Sinner's Prayer. I went to Church and tried to tell everyone I know about Salvation through Christ. But I was alone alot and for ten years I didn't go to Church at all- although I read my Bible each day and Prayed each day and witnessed each day. For ten years before I quit going, I went to Church and I was Baptized. But I'm real scared that by not going to Church for those years that I disobeyed The Lord and that upon three years ago- sinning by disobeying The Holy Spirit- I fell back. Since then, I've felt empty and hopeless- unable to communicate with anyone. This is why I'm so scared that I am doomed. Please let me know what you think. All these things have also been going wrong with me- so I'm afraid that is the "nigh unto cursing" that applies to me in Hebrews 6. Please give me your opinion on this- I really appreciate it. Love In Christ ...
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saved before or after baptism?

Post by m273p15c » Mon May 08, 2006 7:05 pm

Thanks for the background. I have one more question - About your baptism -- Were you baptized in water by Jesus' authority for the remission of sins? Do you believe you were saved before baptism? Or, as a result of baptism?

This is essential for me to answer accurately.

Thanks,

m273p15c
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baptism is an outward sign of an inward grace

Post by email » Tue May 09, 2006 5:50 am

I was Saved before I was baptized. The Church I went to Believed that Baptism was an outward public display that one had Accepted Jesus Christ as one's Personal Lord and Saviour, but that Baptism was not a requirement for Salvation. Thanks again for everything. Love In Christ ...
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baptized for the remission of sins

Post by m273p15c » Tue May 09, 2006 9:40 pm

I think it is crucial to establish this first...

First, it is important that you act based on what you understand the Bible to teach, not any particular local church (Matthew 15:1-9). What do you believe the Bible teaches about baptism and salvation?

Second, I would encourage you to consider that water baptism is the point at which one's conversion is culminated. Specifically, baptism is the point at which our sins are forgiven (Acts 2:37-38; 22:16). I would encourage you to consider the passages in this article for further prayer and meditation:

http://www.insearchoftruth.org/articles/baptism.html

It is fairly brief, but it should provide good food for thought. You would need to ensure that you have obeyed this command before you worry about anything else.

Also, would you prefer to study with someone, face to face, in your area? If you give me your city and state, I can check and see if I know anyone in your area. If I do, then I would give you their contact info, and let you contact them at your convenience.

I look forward to hearing from you.

In Christian love,

m273p15c
May God help us to love truth sincerely and supremely (II Thessalonians 2:11-12)

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