Are all passages that talk about faith talking about our faith?
What is "the Faith" and how does it apply to us and contextual study?
Objective or subjective that is the question?
Moderator: grand_puba
How many times have you read the word faith and it had the definite article in front of it?
What do you think this means, it means that the faith talked about in that context is not your faith but the faith, the gospel.
In the newer translations they remove the definite article because it goes against the standard evangelical saved by faith alone movement. There is abias in newer translations that should not be over looked.
If you are interested in finding these missed articles you can either look them up in an interlinear translation or ask me were to find them and then you can see how the context ghanges in doctrine because of this drastic translation error.
What do you think this means, it means that the faith talked about in that context is not your faith but the faith, the gospel.
In the newer translations they remove the definite article because it goes against the standard evangelical saved by faith alone movement. There is abias in newer translations that should not be over looked.
If you are interested in finding these missed articles you can either look them up in an interlinear translation or ask me were to find them and then you can see how the context ghanges in doctrine because of this drastic translation error.
I would be delighted to share this information with you and whoever else may find it interesting, I certainly did when I stumbled accross it.
I teach a Wens. class on Galatians and have been for about 6 months now, and one thing that kept sticking out at me was the use of the word faith in contrast to the works of the Law. Now if I was Paul and I was trying to show a contrast with the works of the law and something else, it wouldn't be my faith, as if I could be justified by my faith alone.
I knew this was not what Paul was doing, that is plain enough to see, but it wasn't until I started using an interlinear N.T. (Nestles text)when I stumbled across left out words in front of the word faith.
As I began to look closer at the context and the contrast that Paul is making it accured to me that he was not talking about my faith but THE FAITH, (the faith of Christ, the gospel) which is in contrast to the works of the Law within the context of Galatians.
It starts in Gal 3:14
14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
NKJV
It should read throgh THE faith. The definite article makes it objective faith, which is not our faith but The faith.It continues in 3:23 twice; once in 25; once in 26.
Some may think that this really amounts to nothing but their wrong, because this is not all the passages that we find this happening, and when I say it is not happening I mean that the translators have chose not to include the little definite article which changes the whole context of certain passages.
Our faith is subjective, the faith or the faith of Christ is objective, it is not our faith,
Also you might find it interesting that in Gal 2:16
6 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
NKJV
faith in Jesus Christ, should be rendered faith of Christ, which can be translated "The faith of Christ" which is the Gospel.If you follow the pattern in Galatians from the start you see the that Paul talks about the faith 1:23, the gospel 2:2, the truth of the gospel 2:5, truth of the gospel 2:14.
You also find this in Romans 3:21, 22; Ephesians 3:12; James 2:1, Phil. 3:9 and so on and so on.
It is worth the study, it also does not invalidate our responsability of having faith that saves, but certainly it is not alone and in the scriptures it may not always be referring to our faith, but the faith. There are times in the N.T. were the translators have understood that it is not our faith in certain contexts and have rendered the Definite article, but ever since the reformation movement there is a bais to remove all works from the N.T and to introduce the faith alone agenda, which is really were I believe this miss translating is coming from. These people were scholars, how could they miss this many.
I have access to a long list of mistranslated verses which completly change the context of certain passages. I would love to share them if people really want to know what the scriptures teach. Of course do NOT take my word for it, check out an interlinear bible for yourself. The received text also reveals the same things regarding faith and THE faith.
Thanks again for your interest, look froward to talking more about it later.
jeffmiller17@sbcglobal.net
I teach a Wens. class on Galatians and have been for about 6 months now, and one thing that kept sticking out at me was the use of the word faith in contrast to the works of the Law. Now if I was Paul and I was trying to show a contrast with the works of the law and something else, it wouldn't be my faith, as if I could be justified by my faith alone.
I knew this was not what Paul was doing, that is plain enough to see, but it wasn't until I started using an interlinear N.T. (Nestles text)when I stumbled across left out words in front of the word faith.
As I began to look closer at the context and the contrast that Paul is making it accured to me that he was not talking about my faith but THE FAITH, (the faith of Christ, the gospel) which is in contrast to the works of the Law within the context of Galatians.
It starts in Gal 3:14
14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
NKJV
It should read throgh THE faith. The definite article makes it objective faith, which is not our faith but The faith.It continues in 3:23 twice; once in 25; once in 26.
Some may think that this really amounts to nothing but their wrong, because this is not all the passages that we find this happening, and when I say it is not happening I mean that the translators have chose not to include the little definite article which changes the whole context of certain passages.
Our faith is subjective, the faith or the faith of Christ is objective, it is not our faith,
Also you might find it interesting that in Gal 2:16
6 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
NKJV
faith in Jesus Christ, should be rendered faith of Christ, which can be translated "The faith of Christ" which is the Gospel.If you follow the pattern in Galatians from the start you see the that Paul talks about the faith 1:23, the gospel 2:2, the truth of the gospel 2:5, truth of the gospel 2:14.
You also find this in Romans 3:21, 22; Ephesians 3:12; James 2:1, Phil. 3:9 and so on and so on.
It is worth the study, it also does not invalidate our responsability of having faith that saves, but certainly it is not alone and in the scriptures it may not always be referring to our faith, but the faith. There are times in the N.T. were the translators have understood that it is not our faith in certain contexts and have rendered the Definite article, but ever since the reformation movement there is a bais to remove all works from the N.T and to introduce the faith alone agenda, which is really were I believe this miss translating is coming from. These people were scholars, how could they miss this many.
I have access to a long list of mistranslated verses which completly change the context of certain passages. I would love to share them if people really want to know what the scriptures teach. Of course do NOT take my word for it, check out an interlinear bible for yourself. The received text also reveals the same things regarding faith and THE faith.
Thanks again for your interest, look froward to talking more about it later.
jeffmiller17@sbcglobal.net
Luke 18:7-8
8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?"
NKJV
Here is an example of a difinite article being left out of the verse. In the "Nestles" text it reads "will He really find "the faith on the earth"
This is the little word that many translation leave apart from the word faith ho (ho); including the feminine he (hay); and the neuter to (to); in all their inflections; the def. article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom):
KJV - the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc..[/i]
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
Acts 15:8-9
9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith
NKJVShould read according to the Nestles text " Purifying their hearts by the faith"
Here is something that may come to a suprise to most, the textus receptus reads this way in Ephesians 2:8
Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through [the]faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
KJV
This makes the faith objective, which means it is not our faith spoken of here, but the gospel which saves, notice that it is not of ourselves, this means that the grace and the faith our not of ourselves. This would make a lot of evangelicals mad since it is there glory scripture to the faith alone movement.
I could not copy and paste the portion of the Greek text that renders this but please look at any copy of the Textus Receptus, which is made up of many manuscripts which tells us that this rendering is in many manuscripts, but was not translated for what ever reason.
There is much more that can be stated, but I will wait for any interest that might come forward, I hope people will realize that this changes the concept behind many scriptures that for so long people have thought refered to their own faith but truly should be seen as objective faith which is not their faith at all, but this is where our faith comes from.
8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?"
NKJV
Here is an example of a difinite article being left out of the verse. In the "Nestles" text it reads "will He really find "the faith on the earth"
This is the little word that many translation leave apart from the word faith ho (ho); including the feminine he (hay); and the neuter to (to); in all their inflections; the def. article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom):
KJV - the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc..[/i]
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
Acts 15:8-9
9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith
NKJVShould read according to the Nestles text " Purifying their hearts by the faith"
Here is something that may come to a suprise to most, the textus receptus reads this way in Ephesians 2:8
Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through [the]faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
KJV
This makes the faith objective, which means it is not our faith spoken of here, but the gospel which saves, notice that it is not of ourselves, this means that the grace and the faith our not of ourselves. This would make a lot of evangelicals mad since it is there glory scripture to the faith alone movement.
I could not copy and paste the portion of the Greek text that renders this but please look at any copy of the Textus Receptus, which is made up of many manuscripts which tells us that this rendering is in many manuscripts, but was not translated for what ever reason.
There is much more that can be stated, but I will wait for any interest that might come forward, I hope people will realize that this changes the concept behind many scriptures that for so long people have thought refered to their own faith but truly should be seen as objective faith which is not their faith at all, but this is where our faith comes from.