Paul was given a special gospel

What can I do to be saved? Place to discuss sin and its remedy.

Moderator: grand_puba

Post Reply
User avatar
email
Non-Member
Posts: 2994
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:23 pm
Location: ether
Contact:

Paul was given a special gospel

Post by email » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:14 am

Paul is separate from the twelve apostles because he was sent the word of God. This word is a mystery and emphasized in Ephesians. Before Paul, God had only chosen to save individuals in Israel, and then when Paul came along, God sent Paul the word that everyone could be saved through Jesus Christ. Paul was chosen because he was a Jew and Gentile.... It is through Paul's Grace that he provides this message, and we should recognize the great importance of this message in Ephesians.....
The above presented views do not necessarily represent any specific individual, registered on this forum or otherwise.
Who is "email"?

User avatar
m273p15c
Posts: 2788
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 1999 10:45 am

What does the Scriptures teach?

Post by m273p15c » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:16 am

This is an interesting position, but I do not think it is consistent with Scripture. Paul was indeed a special or unique apostle. Here are few passages that note some of his unique characteristics:
  • Persecuted the Church - Paul's original name was Saul (Acts 13:9). Before Saul was converted, he believed Christianity to be false, and he persecuted the church (Acts 7:54-8:3; 22:3-5; 26:9-11). Although he was very wrong, he was very sincere too (Acts 23:1; 24:16). He was ignorant of his own error; and therefore, he received unusual mercy for his strong attacks against the Lord (I Timothy 1:12-16).
  • Late Vision and Appointment - With the exception of Paul and Matthias, all other apostles were chosen by Jesus at the beginning of His earthly ministry (Matthew 10:1-4). As you know, Jesus was ultimately betrayed by one of these apostles, Judas Iscariot, who later killed himself. After Jesus resurrection' and ascension, Matthias was chosen to replace Judas. The requirements included that he had journeyed with Jesus throughout His ministry, beginning at the John's baptism of Jesus (Acts 1:21-26). This was essential because the apostles served as eye-witnesses of Jesus' ministry, miracles, death, resurrection, and ascension (Acts 1:8; 2:32; 3:15; 5:32; 10:39-41; 13:31; I John 1:1-3; II Peter 1:16).

    However, Paul never travelled with Jesus during His ministry. In fact, Paul persecuted the church for some time before he was converted in Acts 9. While Paul was on the road to Damascus to find and persecute more Christians, Jesus appeared to Paul directly and sent him on to Damascus, where someone would eventually tell him what to do to be saved (Acts 9:1-9). From the vision he also learned that the Lord intended for him to also serve as an apostle, and this was the primary reason for Jesus appearing directly to Paul - so, Paul could also be an eye-witness of Jesus resurrection (Acts 26:15-16; 9:10-16).

    Paul himself recognized the lateness of his vision and appointment:
    Paul by inspiration wrote:"For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time." (I Corinthians 15:3-8)
    For example, an older couple, who is long finished having children, may find themselves with a surprise. Have you ever known someone who was an "accident", born late in their parents' life, and much younger than their siblings? Such a one would have "been born out of due time". They would have been born late, past the normal time of having children. In the above verse, Paul compares his calling to just such an event. This makes him unique, when compared with the other apostles.
  • Hardest Working of All the Apostles - Since over half of the New Testament books were written by Paul, it is no surprise that he was the most active of all the apostles.
    Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ, wrote:But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. (I Corinthians 15:10)
    However, that's not to say the others did not work hard, but Paul was able to devote himself more fully than the others. Why?
  • Never Married - Paul never got married (I Corinthians 7:6-9). This allowed him to focus on travelling and preaching the gospel more so than the other apostles (I Corinthians 7:32-35). However, we do know that the other apostles traveled some too (Acts 8:14; 9:32). In fact, they apparently took their wives with them many times (I Corinthians 9:5). Furthermore, according to secular history, most of the apostles were ultimately martyred in a foreign place, like Rome, Africa, etc.

    Incidentally, Paul's advice to remain unmarried in I Corinthians 7 is first, advice not a command (I Corinthians 7:6-7, 25, 35, 40), and second, it was based on the "current distress" and persecutions they were undergoing (I Corinthians 7:26-31). He was not trying to generally discourage marriage (I Timothy 4:1-3).
  • Sent to the Gentiles - Paul primarily worked with the Gentiles. This was his mission from the beginning (Acts 26:15-16; 9:10-16). Consequently, he traveled extensively, always trying to find some place, where people had never heard the gospel (Romans 15:19-21). This made him unique from the other others apostles, because in the beginning of their ministry, they were to first focus on the Jews (Galatians 2:7-9).
OK, now the above points are some of the unique characteristics about the apostle Paul, which are taught by Scripture. Some similarity does exist between these facts and the proposed theory. However, most of the proposed conclusions are inconsistent with Scripture. Let's compare some of the following points with Scripture, and see if they match:
  • Only to Gentiles? - It seems that if Paul had been given a special message for Gentiles, and the other apostles had a special message for Jews, then we would not see the Jewish apostles teaching Gentiles, and we would not see Paul teaching Jews. However, the other apostles were to ultimately leave Jerusalem and Judah, and eventually carry the gospel to every person in every nation in the outermost parts of the earth (Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15-16; Acts 1:8). Furthermore, Paul made a habit of trying to reach the Jews first in every city he visited (Acts 17:1-3; 18:4-6; 19:8-10; 28:17, 23:-28).
  • Who Opened the Kingdom to Gentiles? - Paul did not open the door to let Gentiles into the kingdom. Peter did this! (Well, actually Jesus did, but we are speaking accommodatively here.) The first Gentile converts were Cornelius and his family. Peter was lead by the Holy Spirit to preach the gospel to them. In fact, God had to perform a miracle just to provide enough evidence so the Jews would permit the Gentiles to be baptized (Acts 10:44-48). Peter had to defend that decision, long before Paul had begun to travel and teach the Gentiles (Acts 11:1-18). At this point, Paul was still being nurtured in his new home congregation, working with Jews in Antioch. When the first Gentile was converted, Paul had not even left on his first missionary journey, which began in Acts 13:1-3. Whatever message Paul would ultimately preach to the Gentiles, it was certainly not to extend the gospel to them first. Peter and other Jews had started doing that some time before Paul ever did. The proposed theory is squarely contrary to clear Scriptures on this point.

    Incidentally, God always intended for the Gentiles to be saved. Peter taught this in the first inspired gospel sermon (Acts 2:37-38 - "those who afar off"), but the Jews were so blinded by hundreds of years of prejudice, they did not realize what God was saying. Remember, God had to make the Gentiles start speaking miraculously in foreign tongues before the Jews would accept that God would accept the Gentiles (Acts 10:44-11:18). The Jews should have known, because it was prophesied that God would save the Gentiles through the Messiah too (Acts 15:7-18), but they were just too prejudiced to see truth before the events of Acts 10. The point here is that God's plan all along was for the Gentiles to be saved too, and Peter was the one who was given the keys to first let them into the kingdom - not Paul. (Peter preached the first sermons to both Jews and Greeks - Matthew 16:16-19; 2:14, 37-38; 15:7,14).
  • Paul had a Separate, Mysterious Message? - Paul does say that God's will, before it was revealed, was a "mystery"; however, in Ephesians he says that it has "now been revealed". That means it was no longer a mystery. Furthermore, we can understand what he knew simply by reading his writings, which makes up most of our New Testament:
    Paul, by the Holy Spirit, wrote:19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. 1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles -- 2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: 6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, 7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. 8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; 10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, (Ephesians 2:19-3:10)
    There are lots of good points here. Again, the passage notes that Paul was indeed an apostle specially sent to the Gentiles, but not exclusively - for him or them. Also, please notice that when we read what he wrote, we can understand it! It is not a mystery any more. It has been revealed, and it is not so difficult that it cannot be understood! Incidentally, we must all be careful that we do not say that the Bible is too difficult, and that it cannot be understood. God intended for us to be able to understand it. Given that point, who are we really blaming, if we say the Bible cannot be understood?

    Well, back to the main point, please also notice that the message of grace was was revealed to the "holy apostles and prophets" - not just Paul, not just some of the apostles, but the apostles and prophets! This message was not unique to him! Furthermore, these Gentile Christians, as members of the house of God, were built upon the foundation of "the apostles and prophets". Paul was not their exclusive apostle.

    Admittedly, one could take the proposed theory and "read it into" verses 7-9, but they would have to ignore everything else in the context, insert words into the text like "given exclusively", and ignore the contradictions made with all the other passages in the Bible. Plus, remember, whatever was revealed to Paul and preached to him, as described in verses 7-9, was also revealed to the other apostles and prophets. Diagramming the sentence always helps, although it can be a bit daunting when they are so long.
  • Paul was Jew and Gentile? - It is true that Paul was born in Tarsus of Cilicia, which was a Roman town, relatively far away from Jerusalem. But, I am unaware of any hints that he may be have been part Gentile. Usually, that kind of thing is mentioned somewhere in Scripture, like Timothy, who was half Jew, half Gentile (Acts 16:1). Instead, Paul describes himself this way:
    Paul wrote:3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, 4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ (Philippians 3:3-8)
    Not only does Paul overlook any reference to himself being part Gentile, he describes himself as the quintessential Jew, a "Hebrew of Hebrews"! Everything was perfect about his life, from a Jewish standpoint. That is what makes his conversion so startling. He was riding a rocket to the top of his society and culture, and yet he gave it all up to be a persecuted, travelling, impoverished nomad, ultimately being beheaded for Christ. Why? This fact adds tremendous credibility to his conversion story, because only a true believer would give up everything to gain what would otherwise appear to be nothing. If Paul was somehow less than this, it would destroy the point he was trying to make: He had everything in his Jewish worldview, but he gave it all up for Christ (Philippians 3:7-9). It seems the proposed theory adopted this point on mere speculation and presupposition.
  • Gospel of One! - Although the point considered here was not stated in the proposition, it seems an unavoidable conclusion. If Paul had one message for Gentiles, and the other apostles had another message for the Jews, then there would be 2 different gospel messages, 2 different invitations, 2 different conversion processes, and maybe even 2 different churches! According to the New Testament, one of the great things about the church is that it breaks down the racial barrier between Jew and Gentile. The proposed theory is in stark contrast to this, because it actually accentuates the difference. Compare this to Paul's statement, taken from Ephesians:
    Paul, in the very book being disputed, wrote:11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh--who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands -- 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. (Ephesians 2:11-22)
    In the same book, Paul also said:
    Paul by inspiration wrote:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (Ephesians 4:4-6)
    Again, notice that he said there was one hope, one faith, and one baptism. Does this leave room for any other gospel message? Maybe I have read too much into the theory, but this seems to be a major problem in that it supports at least two different gospel calls and conversion processes.
As I have discussed many theories with many people, it has been my experience to find rich, colorful, and attractive theories with lots of detail and interconnection, like the proposed one. Enhancing their credibility, the theories are often well thought out, at least thought out sufficiently such that they appear self-consistent. However, they almost always suffer from glaring contradictions, when compared with Scripture. This is what happens when people spend too much time swapping theories with other people, studying books written by men, and otherwise receiving their spiritual education from men. Men can come up with very complex stories with many points of application. What we have to ask is, "What does the Scriptures teach?"
Last edited by m273p15c on Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JSM17
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 5:16 pm
Location: Hoffman Estates, Illinois

Try to make things difficult

Post by JSM17 » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:25 am

There is one Gospel, one message that God brought to mankind through the Lord, because of what people perceive to be different Gospels between Peter on the day of Pentecost and some of the conversions found in the later parts of Paul's ministry, they do ignorantly.

Peter gave Paul the right hand of fellowship, they shared the same message. You will find that people have been forced to become dispensationalist because they cannot explain why on the day of Pentecost God required men everywhere to believe , repent, confess, and be baptized in order to be added to the church, remember that 3,000 were added to the church that day.

Now, today people must still believe, repent, confess, be baptized for the remission of sins, but the evangelical world with their worldly view of salvation cannot see beyond the eyes of their father Mr. Luther.

Salvation is conditional, and requires the things that Jesus commanded, yes even belief is a condition and required for salvation.

Jesus also said that unless you repent you will perish.

Jesus also said you must confess

Jesus also said you must be baptized.


Until man stops following other men they will never see the truth of what Christ really said.

Why is it that Jesus said certain things but evangelicals wish to belittle the things that He has said.

Paul preached the same message as Peter John and others, its called THE GOSPEL

Paul said that if you preach any other message you will be accursed, does that mean if Peter preached a different Gospel then Paul he would be accursed? Remember one for the Gentiles one for the Jews yet the same gospel right?

Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Why make things so difficult?

Post Reply