Are you getting messages directly from spirit?

Discuss topics related to the nature, character, and work of the Holy Spirit, including related topics of miracles, signs, and inspiration. Also included are apostles, because of their miraculous deeds.

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Are you getting messages directly from spirit?

Post by supertronik » Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:47 pm

Hello everybody,

Are you getting messages directly from spirit? Some of this stuff will blow your mind. I kept seeing 1111 a lot and thought it was a coincidence, but not anymore... :)


**Edited to remove external links** -- grand_puba

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removed links ... reason for your faith

Post by grand_puba » Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:02 pm

Hello supertronik,

I appreciate your question. It will be good to answer the underlying supposition regarding the validity of direct communication from the spiritual world. However, this forum's purpose is not to drive traffic to other forums, so your post was edited to remove the external links.

This forum's purpose is to find, discuss, and highlight a path to the truth. You are welcomed to share your belief in the significance of 1111; however, you should provide some reason for your belief, so others can consider the evidence for themselves.

Thanks for understanding,

The Moderator

**Moved to Evidences and Apologetics**
Have you read the Rules?

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color me "skeptic"

Post by m273p15c » Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:44 am

I did a little research on Google, and apparently the specific proposition relates to a spiritual nudging, which is supposed to heighten spiritual awareness, possibly even communicating an intended direction. It seems to be an almost Eastern belief, not associated with Christianity or the Holy Spirit in particular.

Essentially, the idea is that certain people are drawn to observe clocks, license plates, etc., at just the right times and just the right places, so they will observe special numbers, like 11:11, or 12:34, etc. These numbers are somehow code for spiritual advice, or they may be intended just to signal one to "wake up and be spiritually alert".

Please allow me to be forthcoming and state that I am extremely skeptical of all claims that the Holy Spirit, or any spiritual force, may be communicating directly to someone today. "Why?", you may ask.
  1. Humans have a tendency to imagine, or even push themselves into dreaming visions that will support what they want to believe. At first, it may be that a person begins to receive revelations, which makes them feel special. But, eventually they will begin to receive guidance that contradicts the Scripture, especially and conveniently excusing sin, which they wish to commit without guilt. I have witnessed too many people go through this process. Plus, this is nothing new. The Scriptures warn against this possibility:
    Jeremiah, the prophet, wrote:Thus says the LORD: "Stand in the ways and see, And ask for the old paths, where the good way is, And walk in it; Then you will find rest for your souls. But they said, 'We will not walk in it.' Also, I set watchmen over you, saying, 'Listen to the sound of the trumpet!' But they said, 'We will not listen.' Therefore hear, you nations, And know, O congregation, what is among them. Hear, O earth! Behold, I will certainly bring calamity on this people -- The fruit of their thoughts, because they have not heeded My words, Nor My law, but rejected it. For what purpose to Me Comes frankincense from Sheba, And sweet cane from a far country? Your burnt offerings are not acceptable, Nor your sacrifices sweet to Me." Therefore thus says the LORD: "Behold, I will lay stumbling blocks before this people, And the fathers and the sons together shall fall on them. The neighbor and his friend shall perish." (Jeremiah 6:16-21)

    And the LORD said to me, "The prophets prophesy lies in My name. I have not sent them, commanded them, nor spoken to them; they prophesy to you a false vision, divination, a worthless thing, and the deceit of their heart." (Jeremiah 14:14)
    First, notice that the people rejected God's message to repent. They had no interest in obeying God's Word; therefore, God promised to send a stumbling block, which would destroy them. One such stumbling block was the false prophets, who the people accepted, because the prophets' message appealed to the people.
    Jeremiah, again wrote:Thus says the LORD of hosts: "Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you. They make you worthless; They speak a vision of their own heart, Not from the mouth of the LORD. They continually say to those who despise Me, 'The LORD has said, "You shall have peace" '; And to everyone who walks according to the dictates of his own heart, they say, 'No evil shall come upon you.' " ... " I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran. I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied. ... I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying, 'I have dreamed, I have dreamed!' How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart, who try to make My people forget My name by their dreams which everyone tells his neighbor, as their fathers forgot My name for Baal. The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream; And he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat?" says the LORD. "Is not My word like a fire?" says the LORD, "And like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces? Therefore behold, I am against the prophets," says the LORD, "who steal My words every one from his neighbor. Behold, I am against the prophets," says the LORD, "who use their tongues and say, 'He says.' Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams," says the LORD, "and tell them, and cause My people to err by their lies and by their recklessness. Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all," says the LORD. "So when these people or the prophet or the priest ask you, saying, 'What is the oracle of the LORD?' you shall then say to them, 'What oracle?' I will even forsake you," says the LORD. "And as for the prophet and the priest and the people who say, 'The oracle of the LORD!' I will even punish that man and his house. Thus every one of you shall say to his neighbor, and every one to his brother, 'What has the LORD answered?' and, 'What has the LORD spoken?' And the oracle of the LORD you shall mention no more. For every man's word will be his oracle, for you have perverted the words of the living God, the LORD of hosts, our God. (Jeremiah 23:16-36)

    For thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: Do not let your prophets and your diviners who are in your midst deceive you, nor listen to your dreams which you cause to be dreamed. For they prophesy falsely to you in My name; I have not sent them, says the LORD. (Jeremiah 29:8-9)
    Notice how the Lord illuminates not only the possibility, but the probability that some people will force themselves to dream what they want to dream! Therefore, I am skeptical of late-coming prophets and faith-changing revelations that conveniently soothe the conscience and offer comfort, when the well-established Scriptures offer no peace.
  2. Anybody can claim that they have had a revelation, so common sense says that there should be some kind of test. How can you know if someone really had a revelation from God? Maybe someone imagined that they had a revelation, possibly even sincerely?

    Have you ever had a tingle run up your spine at an awkward moment? Have you ever felt a "bump", when you were sitting down and no one was near you? Maybe you impulsively looked at the clock a few different times over several months, and the clock read "11:11"? Should we assume that it is a sign, which will be limited to subjective interpretation? How can you know if such events are signs, not to mention resolving doubt regarding their meaning? Common sense demands more evidence than these common occurrences. Explanations come too easily for such events. An honest truthseeker should demand more evidence than just accepting somebody's word that God sent them. In fact, the Scriptures demand it:
    John the apostle wrote:Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (I John 4:1)

    "I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars" (Revelation 2:2)
    Therefore, it is not only fair to ask for evidence, when people present claims of inspiration and spiritual guidance, but it is necessary and expected that such evidence be provided. We should be suspicious of those reluctant to present the evidence proves the divine origin of their message, because even Jesus provided a four-fold witness as evidence to the origin of His message:
    John wrote:"If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true. There is another who bears witness of Me, and I know that the witness which He witnesses of Me is true. You have sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth. Yet I do not receive testimony from man, but I say these things that you may be saved. He was the burning and shining lamp, and you were willing for a time to rejoice in his light. But I have a greater witness than John's; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish -- the very works that I do -- bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. ... Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you -- Moses, in whom you trust. For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?" (John 5:31-47)
    Four independent witnesses testified of Jesus identity: 1) John the Baptist - an accepted prophet (John 1:29-37) 2) Jesus' miracles (Hebrews 2:3-4) 3) The Father's direct voice at the baptism of Jesus (Luke 3:21-22) 4) The fulfilled prophecies of Scripture (II Peter 1:16, 19-21; 3:1-2; Acts 18:24).

    Although we no longer have access to accepted, living prophets, and although we were not present at Jesus' baptism, we still have the privilege of enjoying the witness of the fulfilled prophecies and recorded miracles.

    Unfailing prophecy is a hallmark of those truly sent by God (Deuteronomy 18:19-22; 13:1-5; Isaiah 41:21-24; 44:6-8; 44:28-45:6; Jeremiah 27:14; 28:9, 16-17; 37:19).

    Undeniable miracles also evidence inspired men, sent by God (Mark 16:20; II Corinthians 12:12; Romans 15:9; I Corinthians 2:1-5; Acts 4:7-10; 5:12-16; 8:5-13; ...)
God thought it reasonable to present proof to the origin of Jesus' message. He additionally confirmed the message of the apostles and prophets, whom Jesus sent. Therefore, please allow me to politely ask and request, "Where are your miracles?" "What prophecies will you make?" "What prophecies or Scriptures attest to your coming?" This is the Bible-based test for all who claim to be moved by the spirit. Hopefully, you will not be offended, if I expect the same of you.

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