Presidential Voting and The Christian

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Presidential Voting and The Christian

Post by approachable » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:27 pm

Hi. How is everything?

Can you give me some general advice when it comes to picking a candidate to be President? I'm young (22) and kind of inexperienced at this. In asking this, of course, I know that everyone may have something that they see personally in a candidate, so I'm not asking for any personal information from you (unless you desire to share it). From a Christian's perspective, I need general advice.

Though the Lord will ultimately pick who gets in office (Daniel 4:17 & Romans 13:1-6), and knowing too that none of the candidates will be perfect, I want to at least look at what the candidates stand for, and pray that they will be as honest as possible (I Timothy 2:1-2).

Thank You

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my 2 cents

Post by m273p15c » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:23 pm

I think you have already hit on the most important passages, so I have little to add of spiritual application, except this:

Generally, I rank issues in my mind, according to some priority level, and vote for the one who best represents those issues AND who has a reasonable chance of winning. Being a Christian, the most important issues are spiritual, so abortion and homosexual marriages are very important topics to me, even more important than Iraq and the economy. Therefore, I will gladly pick someone who is committed to reversing Woe v. Wade [sic] or ratifying an amendment against homosexual marriages, even though they may not have the best plan for the economy.

However, one thing I learned from '92, voting for the most ideal candidate can be actually be equivalent to voting for your worst nightmare! I knew several people who thought Perot could really do something great for this county. Not too many people voted for him, but enough voted for him instead of Bush, which gave Clinton the victory. If everybody who had voted for Perot, instead voted for Bush, Sr. (which I think is fairly reasonable, if Perot had not run), then we might never have had 8 years of Clinton's escapades and immoral leadership. That is why I say that I always vote for someone who best represents my values AND who has a reasonable chance of winning.

If McCain gets the Republican nomination, I will still vote for him, even though I will hate it. Why? Since he is as immoral as Clinton or Obamma, I see him as no better spiritually. But, failing to vote for him is practically equivalent to voting for Clinton or Obamma. Since the Democrats generally have a spiritually digressive agenda (humanist, evolutionist, pro-abortion, etc.), I would not want to see their power increased at this time.

That is just my 2 cents, and I would not be dogmatic about it. Certainly, this opinion does not represent this forum and should not necessarily represent anyone else.
May God help us to love truth sincerely and supremely (II Thessalonians 2:11-12)

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Another two cents ... well, more like a nickel ...

Post by acts2216 » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:30 am

Hello, gentlemen,

If I might throw 2 more cents into the pot, this particular topic is one that has been on my mind a lot through the past few elections. While mulling things over during the last presidential election, I heard a statement that cut me to the quick: "The lesser of two evils is still evil." I no longer bend over backwards in compromise for a candidate who has a reasonable chance of winning. Experience should tell us that this does not yield the results we hope for. Republicans have been in power the majority of my lifetime and Roe v. Wade has yet to be overturned by Republican appointees. And regarding conservative philosophies, in the past 8 years, the government and its deficits has grown many times over what the Clinton administration managed to do. The next time Democrats rise to power, they'll have a significantly swollen government with which to drive their agendas. It seems to me that insisting someone must always choose one of two erroneous positions is the way to always be wrong.

I vote for the man who enables me to walk away from the Diebold machine with a clear conscience. In short, I started handling my political power the same way I handle my religion. I believe the best way to conserve and advance Christianity is in getting back to the apostles' doctrine--what does the text say? In the same way, the best way to conserve and advance the American system is to judge a candidate based upon his adherence to the American founding document, that which he will swear upon his inauguration to uphold--the Constitution. I want a candidate who will preserve liberty by upholding the laws we have, not by piling new laws onto the books and creating new departments to enforce them.

If I handled my religion the way most of us handle politics I imagine it would look something like this:
"As a Christian, I don't agree with Billy Graham. He makes a lot of statements that contradict the Christian philosophy. Besides not showing an attitude that reflects Christ, I disagree with much of what he teaches about salvation and the church. But he has a large constituency, the ability to reach more people. It is better for someone to accept his brand of Christianity than continue living completely depraved, right? Better his brand of Christianity than Islam or Buddhism, right? After all, if I put my support behind someone committed to sticking more closely to the founding documents of Christianity, I'm just wasting my effort, throwing away my support. Much better to settle for the lesser good, the lesser of two evils. The restoration principle I've been committed to is hopelessly unrealistic."

So far, this stand has left me voting for the third or fourth guy on the presidential ballot. This time around, I intend to vote for Ron Paul. Some of my brethren who know of my choice have objected, saying they've seen voter's guides that mark him as being against traditional marriage and abortion. I've seen these, too. I've also heard the man speak on each issue. He is marked as being "against" these things because he argues that no new laws or amendments need be made to defend the one and defeat the other. To say one is “against” heterosexual marriage because he doesn’t think the Federal government should be the determining power in the issue is exactly like saying one is “against” orphans getting cared for because they don’t think the Church of Christ should be the determining power in the issue. Ron Paul is a political "anti"! He has said, we needn’t redact the Constitution in order to define marriage—just look it up in a dictionary! In other words, that marriage is between a man and a woman is self-evident. He is not opposed to civil government defining laws of marriage, but he has said such should be handled at the state level. And if Massachusetts and California are going to hell in a handbasket, it doesn’t mean every other state must follow suit. That kind of "radical" talk of state autonomy shouldn't be that unfamiliar to those who argue on the same grounds for congregational autonomy. Regarding abortion, the man is an obstetrician. He knows that a fetus, by law, is a human being. A fetus has rights of inheritance. If a doctor harms or kills a fetus, he can face criminal charges. The laws are there. They should be enforced. The power to make law does not lie with the judiciary, but with the legislature.

Is a vote based on a vastly outnumbered but sound principle a wasted vote? I don't think so, no more than my casting my lot with a congregation of 70 saints taking a stand in a down full of churches with much larger power of influence is bad stewardship. I hope that my vote will be part of a movement that eventually gets the attention of the Republican party and persuades them to not only stop, but reverse the slow crawl towards liberalism that continues to disappoint so many of us.

Meanwhile, with both of you, I will fearfully pray that God will grant us peace while we are under whomever should rise to the ever-ascending highest office in the land. But I don't think our instruction to pray for that man necessarily means we should hold our nose, vote for him, and hope he bears fruit with his new power that is far sweeter than that which has come off his vine so far.

At the same time, I realize most of the brethren I know will vote for McCain. I don't intend to hold it against them. I preached a meeting in rural Kentucky last year--when I pulled into the parking lot of the assembly house for the first time, I thought I might be in the wrong place. I saw at least 3 Kerry bumper stickers! Yes, the whole church was composed of yellow-dog Democrats, going back generations. That limited my conversation somewhat at the potluck! It forced us into talking about things we share in common, like our faith and our families. The meeting went great.

I don't intend to draw lines of fellowship based on our political champions or issues like Social Security or the war. I marvel that the first Christian congregation contained big government tax collectors and pro-secession Zealots. I wonder how politically active they remained after becoming citizens of the Kingdom. Did they have to leave it all behind? I can only imagine they at least had to leave their political principles at the doorstep of their assemblies. I'll do the same ... But I'm sure not leaving them behind when I walk to the ballot!

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Post by thetruth1 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:34 pm

I think you should form your opinion based on where they stand on the issues yet none of them are strongly on those issues because of corporate interests. If you want to try and bring back America to what it used to be I would vote Ron Paul because he takes no money from corporations or special interest groups and will abolish the federal reserve which has caused America its most important problems. Since Ron Paul told the truth he was ignored or laughed at by the media which is owned by giant corporations. Today though electric voting machines are rigged and have been to make whoever the Fed wants to be in power. I dont think god chooses who is president though because his vote matters just as much as yours.

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Post by JSM17 » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:40 am

Aside from conspiracy theories and assumtions we can walk away from any choice feeling justified as long as we put God first!

Agreed that we do not choose the lesser of two evils. If a two canidates are for killing babies then I vote for no one. As for overturner a prior law, I do believe that is in the hands of the congress by law and has yet to see a change even when Rep. had majority.

I do not believe that we vote with our moral compass but with God's high views at hand. I have already heard and seen many Christians talking about voting for a man who opening holds to killing babies and pushing a gay agenda. Our thoughts need to be restored to God's will and purpose for this country.

We should do everything unto the LORD.

Your choices are now going to be either Obama (Who is for abortion)or Mcain (Who says he is against it unless of rape or incest) So for me it is not clear becasue both seem to advocte the killing of babies and at over 40 Million dead now we should be worried about what God thinks not our pocket book or anything else. flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power...

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Post by thetruth1 » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:54 am

This country, America, is slowly being destroyed and has been ever since 1913,
the introduction and creation of the Federal Reserve.
Many believe that the Fed is a government agency but The Fed is as Federal as federal express.
It is a central bank and is a private and secretive entity that operates with out any government regulation.
The Federal reserve is a group of huge private banks that is in charge of creating the money supply and then loans all of the money to the government at INTEREST. There are about 600-billion dollars in circulation and America is in over 60 trillion dollars in debt. This is because the Only way for the dollar not to crash completely is do borrow money from foreign nations and continually create more money. This has been Inflating the money ever since 1913.
Just watch an old American Movie and you'll see how much more money was worth.
This is called a Monetary policy but it is doomed to fail, like throughout all history. Look up Gold, Peace, and Prosperity and read some of it. Its a short pamphlet.
The Federal Income Tax all goes to paying off this Interest to the Federal Reserve, that the Government has to pay. Not ONE PENNEY of your money when filing a 1040 goes to government programs. All of it goes to paying off the debt that the Private banks who own the Federal Reserve have forced us to pay.
In the Constitution it say congress shall have the power to print the currency and the founding fathers were passionately against any idea of creating a Central Bank. Look at all the other currencies in the world and then look at ours. The dollar is going down. Our country is on the brink of a depression.

You can research that independently and find out about the crimes our government has committed against the American people.

The Owners of the Federal Reserve are the real owners of this country and have bought out almost every politician
that we elect into office. They bought Obama, they have bought McCain, they got everyone in their back pocket.
These Politicians are another way of keeping the thought in Americans that we have a choice in this country on who we elect or what happens in congress or the White House. The People that make the choices in this country are the people with the money, not the American citizen. The big corporation choose what information the country gets. 90% of the news media is owned by 5 huge companies. They pick and choose what information you get on a day to day basis. They choose how to make you feel about a certain subject. They choose what info will make you feel a different way and shun it and ignore it.

Obama and McCain are just puppets controlled by special interest groups.
They might be different on small issues like Gay rights, or abortion, or other little things that are focused on by the media to divide up this nation into to small bickering groups so they can take away our freedoms and our money from right under our noses. They have nothing to say about the federal reserve though. The one thing that is going to destroy this nation. The American People have been put to sleep, and coerced to be stupid and ignorant of what is happening to their country.

If you think you have God given rights, just look around and see how Americans have been slowly and surly been taken away of all your so called 'rights'. This is all for the "WAR On TERROR" which a so called threat. The Government
Initiated this war with an intent on scaring the people into embracing the loss of their 'rights'. Anything that can be taken away from you at any moment by the government is not a 'right' it is a 'privilege'.
This is not a Democracy like every one thinks and has been brainwashed in our heads over and over and over and over since the time we were born. This Is an Oligarchy, a police state, a fascism, a government run by a small group of dominant men. The men running the show aren't even in the government. Like I said the politicians are simply the puppets of the giant corporations.

Now is the time for Christians, 70% of America, to stop looking at small issues that you are told are important and WAKE UP to what is happening. America is well on its way to a police state, and a fascist country run by corporations that could care less about the people. Stop watching the News on TV, it is just a way of hiding what the country is becoming and doing.

please, please, please, just WAKE UP!!!


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Post by JSM17 » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:44 pm

I will put my hope in the LORD and will do those things He has told me to do, the government is not my worry, GOD'S judgment is! Issues that concern God are MORAL. We are all responsible for our own actions, I do not speak for the country, I do not speak for other Christians. I do not waste my time in the news media I spend most of my time studying the bible and evangelizing. The world could fall to the ground tomorrow and I will have no regrets other than those who chose to worry about the government instead of worrying about peoples souls.

I would probably put Ron Paul in the same category as the rest of the "Puppets" as you said. Ron Paul couldn't abolish the Federal reserve even if he wanted to. Some people do live in a dream world.

This will be my last post on politics, I am more interested in bible discussion, but thought I would weigh in on this last point. flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power...

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Post by thetruth1 » Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:39 am

Since that was your last post on politics I will get the last word, though i would like to hear a reply. (but that means you just lied in your last post, making it a sin to do a new post... hmm tough call)
JSM17, although your post did inspire me to right my last post, it was not really directed at you but more towards the other readers. I should have made that more clear. (but this one is ^_^)
you said that you would put your faith with the lord so that you don't have to worry about anything the government does. That is a very self-indulgent statement. To earn your freedom of religion you have to be aware of the government that provides it. Not just throw it aside and say i don't have to worry god will take care of me. See what god did for his own son Jesus, didn't end too well. W/E, if you dont care about your rights being stripped away and your own money being taken from you illegally fine by me.
Could you be more specific when you say 'the world could fall to the ground' ?
When you say Ron Paul is just another puppet. well to make a puppet you have to have a puppeteer. Like i said he takes no money from any special interest groups, corporations or anything like that. He is the only candidate talking about the real issues. When you say that there is no way he could abolish the federal reserve i think you are getting some things wrong. He can't do it alone, of course, but thats why he needs the American people on his side. You forget that big businesses and heads of the federal reserve and a few other men, all get their power from the people they control. If there were no people they would have no power. If people wake up and organize you will find that the men of the Bank for International Settlements, will start to panic. We can take this country back from the few who own it. It just takes Willingness and sacrifice( Christians know about sacrifice, but not exactly that kind) to change this country for the better. Your post gives a kind of hopeless attitude but, with god on your side how can you not but feel self assured!
you say that some people do live in a dream world. I agree, people like you (no offense... kinda 8))I think this because you believe that you are not part of this world and anything that happens that doesn't directly effect you or your religion, could matter less.

From your immoral, godless, sinning, going to hell, Atheist =)

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Re: Presidential Voting and The Christian

Post by examiner la bible » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:46 am

I am of the Church of Christ ditent not institutuionel. I am the original Caribbean music. I am black and if I was American I would vote not for Obama. its policy is liberal and allows the opposite of my faith, I would vote not for senior buch view it was for the war in iraq. So I would vote for that? for anyone. voted for this person is allowing imoralité and the war in progress in this world. more Christians should be out of this world, so I am not obliged to vote. I just do it, but it would be a blank vote.
in France we are also voting, and the parties to which a Christian could vote would be the party of President Sarkozy. but it allows the construction of mosque. I would vote for the little things to him but he changed his policy and the little that it allows the adoption of children for homosexual. So I would vote not for him, not for parties sacialiste who is left then left communist.
as Christians we find ourselves at the foot of the wall? Actually no. I am a Christian and I made patis this world, so I am not obliged to vote. I just do not be but voted for a party that looks like a lot but Christian values, and not racist. I would vote for a candidate not for its color or origin or the same religion, we are passing through this world, and our only preoccupation is the kingdom of God.

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