Are Jesus and the Father the same being?

[Doug]

** Moderated - Dec 7, 2005** - Spun off from the following thread:

Praying directly to Jesus?
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Think of this. When you pray to the Father you pray to Jesus because they are one in the same.

Doug
Holy Spirit lead me on, Give me Strength when things go wrong.

[m273p15c]

Think of this. When you pray to the Father you pray to Jesus because they are one in the same.

Are you suggesting that they are the same being? If so, we should probably ask the moderator to spin this off into another thread.

Before responding, I would encourage to look over the following articles:

http://www.insearchoftruth.org/articles/trinity.html
http://www.insearchoftruth.org/articles ... deity.html

[Marc]

Is it true that the Nicene creed declares that Christ is one Being with the Father?
They are the same Being but not the same Person.

[Doug]

Ahhh that is the question isn't it? I suggest they are they same but are not the same. Its kinda like water. Water has three forms, Solid, Gas, Liquid. Each has a different properties but is in fact still Water.

[Doug]

I commend you on the above listed articles. every verse I could think of was cited. It is one of the best describitions of the God Head I have read or heard of. I as Sit and ponder this paradox...I think...who are we to define what God is? yes I agree these debates should take place about God, but how can we with our finite minds grasp the nature of infinite God?

[m273p15c]

who are we to define what God is? yes I agree these debates should take place about God, but how can we with our finite minds grasp the nature of infinite God?

In some measure, I agree with your observation. How can the lesser comprehend the greater? Moses' statement seems apropos here:

The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law. (Deuteronomy 29:29)

Many secret things remain hidden, which are not for us to know. They are of no concern for us, for now. However, whatever has been revealed about God's character is given to us to both know and understand.

... how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets (Ephesians 3:3-5)

Even though we may are incapable of discovering the secrets of these mysteries, if God reveals them to us, then we may understand them. The Scriptures claim to do this very thing (Ephesians 3:3-5; II Timothy 3:16-17).

I am unaware of any passage in the Bible that specifies man's intellectual capacity as being the limitation in understanding God's revealed Word. In fact, it is generally regarded as a sort of stumbling stone, because intelligent people must humble themselves before God (I Corinthians 1:22-31; James 4:6-7). Most of the time, Jesus referred to "hardeness of heart" as being the principle reason for people being "slow to understand". It is our reluctance to accept "all the Scriptures" that prohibit us from comprehending the full, revealed picture (Luke 24:13-27). For what it is worth, I believe that generally, we need more faith in accepting Scriptures than intellect in deciphering them. Beyond that, the secret things will remain secret until God reveals them (Ecclessiastes 3:11; 7:23-24; 8:16-17).

[m273p15c]

Think of this. When you pray to the Father you pray to Jesus because they are one in the same. ... Ahhh that is the question isn't it? I suggest they are they same but are not the same. Its kinda like water. Water has three forms, Solid, Gas, Liquid. Each has a different properties but is in fact still Water.

In some sense, they are the same, in that they have the same nature. Both Jesus and the Father are divine, deity. The scriptures use the word, Godhead or Godhood, which describes the state of being peculiarly "God". Compare it to similar words, "man" -> "manhood", "brother" - > "brotherhood", "neighbor" -> "neighborhood", etc.

That their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and of Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Now this I say lest anyone should deceive you with persuasive words. ... Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. (Colossians 2:2-10)

However, please note that Jesus is not the same being as the Father, because Jesus prayed to the Father (Matthew 26:53; John 14:16; Hebrews 5:5-7). How can one pray to himself, or ask himself for help? Moreover, how can one deny his own will by submitting not to his own will but instead to his own will? (Yep, you read that right...)

And He was withdrawn from them about a stone's throw, and He knelt down and prayed, saying, "Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done." (Luke 22:41-42)

How is this possible, if they were the same being? How could Jesus deny His own will by submitting His will to the Father, if they are one and the same person?

[twinc]

you and your son are two different beings and yet one as human beings - your son is as human as you are - it is the same with Jesus and His Father who are two different beings but the son is just as much a divine being as His Father - twinc

[truth]

jesus also said'', ‘I am ascending to my Father and YOUR Father and to my God and YOUR God.’”